DT 26366

Daily Telegraph Cryptic No 26366

Hints and tips by Big Dave

+ – + – + – + – + – + – + – +

BD Rating – Difficulty ***Enjoyment ***

Gazza is still recovering from the name check he received in yesterday’s puzzle!

Typical Friday Fare, with the usual faultless wordplay (as long as you are prepared to forgive the homophone in 24a) – although I’m sure that a few of you will have tripped over on the answer to 15a.

Please leave a comment telling us what you thought. You can also add your assessment by selecting from one to five stars at the bottom of the post.


1a    Provision for good health a province put into place (10)
{SANITATION} – to get this provision for good health put A and a province of the UK inside a place or position

6a    Front line of the theatre behind piano (4)
{PROW} – the front of a ship comes from a line of seats in a theatre preceded by P(iano)

9a    Nice female copper attending FA Cup match? (5)
{CUTIE} – nothing to do with a female from Nice, just a nice girl – the chemical symbol for copper is followed by an FA (or any other cup) match

10a    Once again choose harvest time (9)
{REAPPOINT} – a word meaning to choose or select once again is a charade of to harvest and a time or moment

12a    Detainee held by ship-owner briefly (8,2,3)
{PRISONER OF WAR} – this detainee, when abbreviated, is hidden inside shiP-OWner

14a    Beloved listener finished being put outside (8)
{ENDEARED} – to get a word meaning beloved, put a listener (one of two) inside a synonym for finished

15a    Hunter making entreaty audibly (6)
{PREYER} – a hunter sounds like (audibly) an entreaty or appeal – this word is in the ODE but not Chambers

17a    Half of the field — one in which little man is buried (6)
{ONSIDE) – cricket lovers will know this half of the field on which the batsman stands when waiting to receive the ball – inside (is buried) ONE put the abbreviation of a man’s name

19a    Makes bold summaries at end of page (8)
{PRESUMES} – a word meaning “makes bold” or “has the audacity” is derived by putting summaries or synopses after the front end of P(age)

21a    The horrid serf working somewhere north of London (13)
{HERTFORDSHIRE} – an anagram (working) of THE HORRID SERF gives a county somewhere north of London

24a    Eleanor attached to wise man reportedly a very long time ago (6,3)
{BRONZE AGE} – a charade of a film and TV actress together with a dreadful homophone (reportedly) of a wise man leads to a prehistoric period named after the material used for tools and weapons

25a    Former female MP with a tale that never ends (5)
{ASTOR} – believe it or not but this first-ever female MP won her Plymouth seat before my time! – A and most of (that never ends) a tale or narrative

26a    Drink in an agitated state? Not right! (4)
{ASTI} – this light sparkling Italian wine is derived by dropping the final R (not Right) from a word meaning in an agitated state

27a    Yes, isn’t she funny when it’s put together! (10)
{SYNTHESISE} – an anagram (funny) of YES ISN’T SHE gives a word meaning to put together


1d           No time in store to find item of clothing (4)
{SOCK} – drop the T(ime) from a store to get an item of clothing

2d           See accommodation that might be useful for a writer (7)
{NOTEPAD} – I thought that see might be referring to a diocese, but no – synonyms for to see and accommodation combine to give something used by a writer or by a secretary – although the ODE gives the enumeration as (7), Chambers gives (4-3) – as Chambers is the Telegraph’s dictionary-of-choice, why can’t we have consistency?

3d           Film star from a land down under (3,6,2,2)
{THE WIZARD OF OZ} – … or a description of Shane Warne?  If you still haven’t guessed, it’s a story about Dorothy and her dog, Toto!

4d           Pie sales (8)
{TURNOVER} – a double definition

5d           Talk from rector at Easter (5)
{ORATE} – to talk is hidden in the clue

7d           Company hoping everything keeps on track (7)
{RAILWAY} – a cryptic definition of a company that runs trains

8d           Secret wars — supply low-calorie food (10)
{WATERCRESS} – an anagram (supply) of SECRET WARS gives this salad ingredient

11d         Shambolic airport — ascent put off (13)
{PROCRASTINATE} – an anagram (shambolic) of AIRPORT ASCENT gives a word meaning to put off – or to steal time, perhaps!

13d         A phonebox I vandalised, fearing strangers might appear? (10)
{XENOPHOBIA} – an anagram (vandalised) of A PHONEBOX I leads to the fear of strangers

16d         Hope for religious group: to seize power (8)
{PROSPECT} – to get this hope you need to combine synonyms of “for” and a religious group and around (to seize) P(ower)

18d         Segregate fat soldiers coming in (4,3)
{SORT OUT} – a phrasal verb meaning to segregate is created by putting a word meaning fat or portly around (coming in) the O(ther) R(anks)

20d         A timer’s possibly showing experts beating time (7)
{MAESTRI} – an anagram (possibly)of A TIMER’S gives the plural of a word often used to describe the conductor of an orchestra

22d         Willing to study the latest bit of theology (5)
{READY} – a word meaning willing or prepared is a charade of to study at university and the last letter (latest bit) of theologY

23d         Bank needing support with finance ultimately (4)
{BRAE} – the bank of a Scottish river is a charade of a woman’s undergarment to support  the breasts and the last letter (ultimately)

If you’re in a really masochistic mood today then have a go at the Toughie!

Gazza has visitors this weekend, and Tilsit is still in hospital (he’s going to do the acrosses on the Toughie).



  1. Posted October 8, 2010 at 11:33 am | Permalink

    Not sure I do forgive the homophone!. Everything lese was fine fare but 15a took some time as the longer word is more common.
    Thanks to BD for the notes and Giovanni for the Friday Finale.
    the Toughie is a cusing me untold problems!

  2. Lea
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    That was fun – nice to be back in the swing. I agree with you Gnomey – that 15a was a long time coming as was 25a. My favourite was 2d

    Thanks to Giovanni and to BD

  3. Jezza
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Another good puzzle from Giovanni to end the week, which in my opinion was easier that the last few weeks, but no less enjoyable.
    And as for the toughie, 6 left, and stuck!

    • Posted October 8, 2010 at 11:49 am | Permalink

      3 better than me, Jezza! and thats the last I’ll say about it on this blog.

  4. Prolixic
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    Entertaining puzzle from Giovanni today. Many thanks to him for the crossword and to BD for the review. I’ll forgive homphone – it was one of those that you smile at rather than suck your teeth when the penny drops.

  5. crypticsue
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    A very good puzzle today. Thanks to Prolixic for the hint I needed. I didn’t mind the homophone. Thanks to Giovanni and BD.

    May be struggling with the Toughie for a long long long time but haven’t given up hope yet.

  6. ChrisH
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    Can’t disagree with the comments above. First reading, I thought it was going to be one of those days. However, having got a toehold, it fell in to place quite neatly. The toughie sounds ominous, haven’t even had time to look at yesterdays yet.

  7. Dynamic
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Slightly off-topic, but in today’s Quick Crossword, my friend has the answers GYM SIR TEES for the pun in the first three Across clues.

    Can anyone shed any light?

    Or did they misname John Surtees the only World Champion on both two and four wheels (500cc Motorcycling 1956 and Formula One 1964, preceded and succeeded by Jim Clark in the latter)

    • crypticsue
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

      That’s the whole point of the across answers in the top line. They spell something but “say” something else!!

    • Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

      I certainly cant find a famous Jim Surtees on Wiki. The answers are also correct so perhaps this is an error although I am quite prepared to be corrected.

      • crypticsue
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

        If you google search there is one who is a cricketer in Cambridgeshire!

    • Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

      I seem to recall that John Surtees was often known as Jim, but it was a long time ago.

    • Dynamic
      Posted October 9, 2010 at 12:50 am | Permalink

      Thanks to all of your for your replies. We’ll see what the solution says in brackets tomorrow.

      None of the Jim Surtees seem as notable as John or his late son Henry.

      • Dynamic
        Posted October 10, 2010 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

        For the record, in the solution it was shown in parentheses as Jim Surtees with no further explanation (though explanations are rare, and I only remember was the wonderful 1 Shame, 4 Spawned {James Bond, in a Connery accent} I’m trying to hide the spoiler in white text as per the blog proper.

  8. Geoff
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Most enjoyable and nearly got there. Just needed a couple of hints to finish it.

    Many thanks to Giovanni and BD for the enlightening review, just need to be enlightened on a few down constructs in due course.

    Spelled 15a wrong, never can work out which spelling is required in homophones!

  9. Kath
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    I thought that this was a fair bit easier than most Friday crosswords. Didn’t understand a couple of them until I read the blog – 1a and 12a. Hadn’t spotted the ‘POW’ in the middle of 12a and kept trying to make it an anagram of something, and I still don’t understand 1a – what is the province NIT? Sorry to be so dim!! Didn’t care for 17a – surprise, surprise – looked it up – cricket and football in one clue – hiss! Because of various disasters on the home front I’ve only just read the blog and comments from yesterday – what a lot of night owls – comments written in the small hours! Thanks to BD and Giovanni for today’s puzzle and hints – off to do the ironing now.

    • Geoff
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

      Kath, quite a few of the night owls are up and about in the daylight hours of NZ and Australia. There’s a live traffic feed near the bottom of the page, which is quite interesting, in an anorak sort of way, to view late at night or very early morning.

    • Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:45 pm | Permalink


      A NI (a province / Northern Ireland) inside STATION

      • Kath
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

        Thank you all – really being very stupid today and ‘found’ an extra ‘T’!

    • Patsyann
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

      Kath – no one is liatening t o our despair at cricketing terms!

      First time I’ve managed to finish a Friday crossword without help for months. Very enjoyable. Many thanks to setter and reviewer.

  10. crypticsue
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    NI for Northern Ireland. Take that out of the answer and you have another word for place.

  11. mary
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    Agree with Kath it was a little easier then Giovannis normal Friday crosswords and with a fair few anagrams to get us going, I actually got 17a striaghtaway! some of these cricket terms seem to be sinking in :) As for the night owls Kath, you’d think if they have nothing better to do at that time of night, it is they who should ‘dry up’ :-D, prayer for hunter??? can’t find it anywhere? Finished early today without the blog but still needing my books and machines, thanks for blog Dave and Giovanni, hope you have a good weekend Dave

    • Jezza
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

      Re 15a, the word you have written down has as ‘e’ not ‘a’ for the third letter. Does that make more sense?

      • mary
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

        Of course it does Jezza :oops: quietly slips back into the CC corner, whispering ‘thank you’ but whispers defiantly (still can’t find it as a synonym for hunter)

        • Lea
          Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:44 pm | Permalink


          A hunter is someone who preys on someone else – eg animals. Therefore a preyer will be a hunter.

          • mary
            Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

            Yes I know Lea my point is that I can’t find the word anywhere :)

            • Lea
              Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

              Sorry Mary – I can see what you mean. My justification was hunt = prey / hunter = preyer – but didn’t look in any of the dictionaries.

              • mary
                Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

                I know, it just didn’t seem like a word to me and when I couldn’t find it anywhere, well, I questioned it, unlike me!, I must admit to having put prayer at first!!

                • Lea
                  Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

                  Don’t worry – I did at first as well and then realisedf it was a homophobe so changed it,.

                  • Jezza
                    Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

                    I think you mean homophone :)

                    • Lea
                      Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

                      You are right – can’t type – too many things in front of the keyboard so typing at an awkward angle.

                    • mary
                      Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

                      Now that’s an interesting new word for our collection, anyone, what’s the definition of a homophobe, no rude answers please and it has to be to do with solving crosswords!

                    • gnomethang
                      Posted October 8, 2010 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

                      Mary. Trust us, it’s not a new word!

    • Gari
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

      Hi Mary,

      I am one of the night owls you refer to as I work a nightshift in a logistic’s company and tend to do the CW in my night time break, not much else to do between 2 & 3 am and it keeps me active rather than kipping in a corner like the rest. We transport much of the goods you find in your local supermarkets and it is much easier to do during the night when the roads are quieter. :D

      • mary
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

        Do you do todays or tomorrows Gari???

  12. mary
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

    I’d like to know just where that promised 20 deg is today, please don’t all shout at once :(

    • Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

      18 and rising in North Kent! ;)

    • Jezza
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

      Not a cloud in the sky in SW20

      • crypticsue
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

        Don’t know temp in East Kent but lovely blue sky and sunshine. Its 22 in the office with the window open!

    • Nubian
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      As I blogged to you yesterday Mary, it was 20 up here in Newcastle. Today is just cloudy, wet and miserable.

      • mary
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

        At least you got yesterday, its not wet here, but very windy and cloudy now, though the morning was lovely and sunny, Newport, where the Ryder cup was played last weekend is forecast to have the hottest day in the country tomorrow, typical!

        • Lea
          Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

          I think it was all about making sure that the Americans were at a disadvantage as they don’t see rain like that very often.

    • Kath
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

      Quite warm (19) in Oxford but fairly cloudy and humid.

    • Jemux
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

      21C in the shade in Uxbridge right now – AND I’M NOT SHOUTING – too busy sweating!! – I agree that the word ‘preyer’ was a tad annoying and my MS dictionary doesn’t recongnise it – but did you know: Preyer is one of the best Metal bands to come out of Wales?!! Had difficulty with 19a which is odd as I’m currently rewriting my CV which kind of fits the clue too – that’s the problem when you multi-task – you don’t join up the tasks in the middle.

      • mary
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

        Hi Jemux, yes I have heard of the group but like you can’t find it anywhere and I thought Chambers big red book was the crossword ‘bible’ so to speak! so have decided though the clue is clever I don’t like it :)

      • Lea
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

        I also live in Uxbridge – breezy where I am but it was lovely when I ventured out for a walk – after being in hospital it was excellent to have decent weather to start my road to recovery.

        • mary
          Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

          Hi Lea, I hope it stays fine so that you can get out for a bit, the sunshine alsways helps recovery :)

          • Lea
            Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

            You are right – mental process as much as anything.

            Muscles working better every day. Didn’t realise how uneven the road was until I walked on it with crutches – cars gave me a wide berth I must say – amusing.

    • Franco
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

      :cool: No real need for the shades here on the Essex Coast, but had a very late night – last night!

    • Geoff
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

      Just in from a 5-mile walk by the river, across meadows, through woods, in shirt-sleeves and glorious sunshine! A good weekend coming up too!

      • mary
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

        Ok Ok I get it everyone is having nice weather, well surprise, surprise, so are we at the moment :) Sounds like a lovely afternoon Geoff, Thanks all for weather reports, I’ll be checking again tomorrow unless of course I’m out sunbathing…..What?? don’t laugh

  13. Sheepdag
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    25a This was the first female MP to take her seat – the first woman to be elected as an MP was, I believe, Baroness Marciewicz. She was in Sinn Fein and did not take her seat – this may have been because she would not swear allegiance to the Crown

  14. Nubian
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Good enjoyable Friday puzzle, a little easier than normal but not that much.
    Thanks to Dave and Giovanni

  15. Digby
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    A pleasant enough challenge, but with a few two many “telegraphed” anagrams for me. Off to the Toughie with great trepidation!

    • crypticsue
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

      If you are anything like me today, you will need a lot more than trepidation to get you through it! I am still struggling on two of the clues.

      • Digby
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

        I see what you mean! Perhaps if I go to a darkened room, and lie down with the paper under my pillow, the answers will come to me via Osmosis?

        • mary
          Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

          Isn’t that something that happens to plants Digby????

          • Digby
            Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

            No need to get personal!!

            • mary
              Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

              As if!!

  16. Barrie
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Fantastic puzzle today from the Master (we are not worthy!:-))
    Esp loved 12a, that was so clever and 17a, if you are not offside you are ******* – brilliant.
    Thank you for making my one day off enjoyable.

    • mary
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

      Hello Barrie, how’s the filming going, have you had good weather for the outdoor scenes? well done today, I still don’t ‘get’ 15a, I do understand it but can’t find it as a synomym for hunter!!!

      • Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:34 pm | Permalink
        • mary
          Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

          Been on the link Dave it just shows John Preyer the artist!! I think I give up on this and decide that if its not in the Big Red Book – it’s just not!

          • Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

            I get “n. One who, or that which, preys; a plunderer; a waster; a devourer”

            • mary
              Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

              Strange that, don’t know why but this one really niggles at me, Oh well, I think I’ll go walk it off :)

        • Jemux
          Posted October 8, 2010 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

          Preyer – I note that the definition in BD’s link is from Webster’s 1913 edition – so now we are having to cope with pre Great War English (US) as well as current English (UK) and the odd bit of schoolboy French!!! – however this noun does appear on p 1134 of my Concise OED. Perhaps I should get this word into my CV as a discussion point ………….

          • mary
            Posted October 8, 2010 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

            Well I am not buying the OED having bought Chambers which I thought would cover everything, having the crossword dictionary and the big red book!

      • Nubian
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

        Mary, if you prey on someone or hunt your prey you must be a preyer.

        • mary
          Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

          I understand that Nubian, I just can’t find it anywhere or couldn’t I am just going to follow Daves Link now, thaks Dave

      • Barrie
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

        Hours are brutal and we managed to injure one of the stars on Wednesday! But it is progressing.
        Should be around for next couple of weeks (Mon/Tues excepting) as the production team are doing scenes that don’t involve me, probably do a couple of adverts for light relief!! :-)

        • crypticsue
          Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

          If you can’t tell us which part you have in the film, can you tell us which adverts you are in so that we can see what you look like!

          • mary
            Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

            I know he’s not the singer in ‘Go Compare’ because he’s from my home town!!

            • Barrie
              Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

              And if you heard me sing, you would know that to be true!!

          • Barrie
            Posted October 8, 2010 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

            Don’t know yet, depends what my agent gives me!! I’m usually the last person to know :-)

  17. Gari
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

    Throughly enjoyed today’s CW especially 8d & 7d which when put together make a preserved steam line based in Alresford Hampshire, thanks to Giovanni and BD. :D

  18. Pete
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

    After yesterday it is cold wet and miserable so had to go shopping this morning, out with the dog after lunch before it was crossword time.
    Not much to add but I did manage to put the ‘e’ and not the ‘a’ in 15A.
    Thanks to setter and Big Dave.

  19. Franny
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

    As I thought, having got through yesterday’s offering so happily, today I was flummoxed. However, I managed the bottom half before getting stumped, and I needed you, BD, to help me finish. So many thanks for your explanations, but could you please tell me what the province is in 1a?

    • Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

      See comment #9.

      it’s a familiar crossword construct – so remember it, as this won’t be the last time it comes up.

      • Franny
        Posted October 8, 2010 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

        Thanks, BD. That will teach me to read the comments more thoroughly before asking questions. Are there any other abbreviations of British provinces? I didn’t know they had them.

        • Posted October 8, 2010 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

          We often see some or all of E(nglish), ENG(land), IOM (Isle of Mam), IOW (Isle of Wight), SCOT(tish), and W(elsh).

    • Jemux
      Posted October 8, 2010 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

      NI = Northern Ireland – see above

  20. Little Dave
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

    Initial scrutiny of this suggested it was going to be very hard – slow start, then I hit the District Line and things fell into place. Good to see my home county at 21a as well. 4d made me smile. Last in was 15a.

    Can we drop 26a please? This comes up far too often – like “eton”, “note”.

    The stock answer for “support” also makes me smile (23d – my first one in today).

    Roll on tomorrow.

  21. Gary
    Posted October 8, 2010 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

    On the train to work this morning, I had my usual glazed expression and only filled in 2!! But something must have happened during the day, as on the train home, done quie a few. Finished off with the help of the hints. Very enjoyable!

  22. Drcross
    Posted October 9, 2010 at 12:19 am | Permalink

    Lots of anagrams today got me off to a quick start. Last clue was 25a and favourite was 12a.

  23. Derek
    Posted October 9, 2010 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    My usual – much later – input as I had friends for dinner last night – did roast pork with crackling for them with apple sauce, roast spuds and petits pois – very Anglo-Saxon

    Best clues for me were : 12a, 24a, 27a, 2d & 3d .

    At 17a I thought of The Girls!

    Homophones can sometimes be irritating as pronunciation does vary regionally in many countries – even in France!

    4d is not in Chambers Xword dictionary but in Bradford.

  24. pommers
    Posted October 9, 2010 at 8:47 am | Permalink

    Got up at silly-o’clock this morning to watch the qualifying for the Japanese Grand Prix but when it was cancelled due to torrential rain I thought I’d have a go at yesterday’s xword. Glad I did – very enjoyable, so thanks to Giovanni.
    Thanks BD for the explanation of 12a. The answer was pretty obvious from the 8,2,3 format and a couple of checking letters but I couldn’t see where it came from! Doh!

  25. Wingnut
    Posted October 19, 2010 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

    Did all but 23d. Not being scottish didn’t help.