DT 30673

61 comments on “DT 30673”

1. Beaten for the first time in ages by just one clue, 23a.

   In my infinite wisdom I decided it had nothing to do with dear old Donald, and was actually about the card game bridge, and knowing absolutely nothing about the game, admitted defeat there and then.

   After getting the answer from my Franklin Crossword Solver, I found it was actually related to a bridge of a different kind, form a bad one at the table, and the answer could very well be the result. The final insult is that I actually play this game every week!

   Liked the rest of the puzzle apart from 3d, either I’m missing something or it’s just a very poor clue.
   My two favourites were 14d and 15a. Many thanks to our setter today, hope I’m just wrong about 3d.

   1. On-line, 3d now reads:
      Go, having appraised novel (9)

      1. Yep, that works far better, not surprised it’s changed, the original clue was just dreadful.

         1. 3d? someone couldn’t count!

   2. Also beaten by 23A which is, in my mind, a totally degenerate clue. No cryptic fodder, just a test of whether you knew a particular snooker player. Which I didn’t. Ruined today’s crossword for me.

      1. Completely agree, I would have called it unfair but I much prefer degenerate, I will use that in future

      2. Hi Seashore (I’m sure you’ve had that one all your life, assuming it’s not an alias, but I couldn’t resist. Sorry).

         There’s some cryptic action going on as it wants you to think that Big Don is at the negotiating table. Admittedly, it is very specialised knowledge. So, I completely understand why you and many others aren’t happy.

         1. Tom, the reason I think the clue to be so very poor is that if you’ve never heard of the snooker player you have no way of knowing whether your presumed answer is correct: there’s absolutely nothing in the wordplay that’s going to get you to ‘miscue’ other than a lucky guess based on the checkers.

            It’s like having a vanishingly obscure word as a synonym for something itself very unusual and it being clued as an anagram with a double-unch in the lights: unsporting!

            1. Good to hear from you, MG, me old cocker spaniel.

               I reckon that if it was Ronnie O’Sullivan, no one would be saying ‘Grrr!’. I think that’s the only real issue. Obscure knowledge, with two out of three checkers being vowels, certainly doesn’t help.

               I see you have stopped given your ratings. Intentional or will normal service be resumed?

               You know I need my fortnightly/monthly fill of <

               1. And I think that’s exactly the issue: “the other Trump” is not exactly a well-known name, unless you happen to have an interest in snooker, very much a minority interest, unlike 20/30 years ago. As such it is niche knowledge, not even just “different generation/culture/nationality/country” knowledge, and the problem is that without it the clue is not capable of being solved as there’s no other way of logically finding the word “miscue” from the clue. A very rare slip from AP, who is usually as reliable and fair a setter as it is possible to be.

                  As to the other, who knows? ;)

                  1. My guess is that AP knew what he was doing and was hoping that the solvers would let him off as it’s such a great surface.

                     It’s a shame that he’s not called Donald O’Sullivan.

                     Talking of snooker…

                     RIP Ray ‘Dracula’ Reardon.

                     I loved him.

2. An excellent crossy from the prof to follow yesterday’s delight.

   We’ll skim over 3d (doh!) and I’m sure there will be some ‘harrumphs’ from non-lovers of the green baize in 23a though it’s an excellent surface.

   Tricky to pick a podium but I’ll go with 18a, 27a and 20d.

   Many thanks to AP and Hintsman.

   2*/4*

3. 1.5*/3.5*. Light and good fun on the whole. Only 23a held me up because I initially forgot about that Trump.

   Isn’t 3d a mistake? The anagram fodder and definition lead to “disappears” which is 10 letters.

   Many thanks to the setter and to Hintsman.

4. This was excellent fare with one or two curveballs thrown in. Like Tipcat, 23a stumped me for ages and so did 1d. My problem with 1d was I did not notice the answer was plural so the singular didn’t fit. I spent too long going through breeds before I notice the “s” in the clue. Still, it was an enjoyable solve. My COTD is 28a with its stomach churning entertainers.

   Thank you, Professor Plum in the library for a great guzzle. Thank you Hintsman for the hunts.

   Lovely sunny day in The Marches so I’ll get some grass cutting done if my shoulder allows.

   Sorry, I accidentally put a “W” at the end of my email. 😳

   1. The ‘W” caused your comment to go into moderation so I have fixed it.

      1. Thanks, Senf. I noticed it a split second after I had pressed “post comment”.

5. Enjoyable and very Tuesday, very gentle; one or two anagrams too many, and for me the original 3d didn’t work – it made no sense to ignore the possessive ‘s, but one had to. Good to see from Senf’s comment that it has now been changed. I wonder what AP’s original intention was for the clue – possibly just an oversight? For the Honours Board I shall nominate 13a, 5d and 22d – a clue that gives rise to a certain degree of self-recognition!

   Many thanks to AP and to Huntsman

6. Good fun from Mr Plumb on a Typical Tuesday apart from the now corrected, or should it be replaced, 3d – 1.5*/4*

   Candidates for favourite – 10a, 15a, 18a, 1d, and 4d – and the winner is 18a.

   Thanks to AP and Huntsman.

   P.S. Donnybrook in fine Tuesday Toughie form!

7. Two successive fun days – great! Never heard of 23a Trump – do pity our overseas bloggers! Not sure how clue to 3d justifies having to “ignore the possessive” (to quote today’s hinter). 17d still baffles me a bit (obviously being thick!). Fav 28a. Altogether a very enjoyable enigma. TVM MrP and Hintsman.

   1. Every time I see that name I get twitchy, as if I’ve got the DTs. You can’t just ignore it, the DT setters are bringing him up more and more, every time you turn the TV on he’s front and centre. I wonder if bill last the course.

      1. There’s positive talk today this side of the Pond about the current Vice President’s prospects – don’t know what to think. (Oh dear, just remembered we’re not supposed to talk politics on here but perhaps it’s OK if referring to another country?!)

         1. I’m all in! I pray she wins, she’s so smart and well qualified. Will our rednecks buy it? (Also her Dad comes from Browns Town, where I went to school!)

            1. Everyone was extremely good in refraining from political comments (as directed by Comment Etiquette point #8) during the recent UK General Election , so please don’t go down that road during the US Election.

8. Normal Tuesday service restored now that pa’s despair has been sorted out – at least on-line!
   Top two for me were 18&27a.

   Thanks to Mr Plumb and to Huntsman for the review.

9. 3d was what it was and I am amazed it got through the scrutineers at Telegraph Towers. That aside, good gentle fun for a Tuesday with 23a my favourite.

   Thanks to Mr P and The Hintsman.

10. Just arrived at the golf club. Figured 3d was a boo-boo but no time to investigate. Thanks to Gazza for getting emailing CL & amending post the new hint.
    Steve – send some sunshine to Totteridge – looks like it’s about to tip it down

    1. Sunshine vibes sent to Totteridge. It should be with you tomorrow. 😁

11. 23a had me stumped for ages and still don’t know where the Trump comes in. Otherwise a good guzzle but a bit top heavy on the anagram side. Just off to the Swallows for their £12 lunch – jolly good value – a main meal and a drink. To anyone passing through North Norfolk on Saturday, its the annual Cley Fete and is just what a proper country fete should be so do come along. There are masses of excellent stalls, cream teas and classical music in our huge church and an always completely out of control dog show. Thanks to the setter and Mr H

    1. Is the dog show out of control ‘cos of the setter & Mr. H ? That would be a sight.

12. 3d was one of my first entries until I realised I had an extra “s”, I suspect a plumb (sic) was dropped during the compiling.
    Last in was 23a which I needed help with. I watch the green baize very occasionally and only after the paint has dried.
    Cotd for me and I emphasis for me was 6d.
    Thanks to setter and Huntsman.

    1. As an overseas solver 23A was very a bit on the Kildare Side – to use an Irish expression.

       1. You’ve changed your alias so this comment needed moderation. Both versions will work from now on.

13. Enjoyable and fairly gentle (as long as you’re into snooker) – thanks to our setter and Huntsman.
    My favourite clue is 18d.

14. An enjoyable guzzle today. LOI was 23a and I went down several blind alleys before remembering the appropriate Trump.
    Top picks for me were 15a, 4d and 18d.
    Thanks to Huntsman and the setter.

15. A dnf for me as I made a right horlics of 6d trying to find a relevant island and never thought of the snooker Trump in 23a but tried to find all manner of Bridge related possible answers. Other than that, I thought this was an elegant puzzle with particular ticks along side 18a and 14d. Thanks to AP and Huntsman.

16. 2*/4* for me today – mostly due to the fact 23a had me stumped! Finally gave in and read the hints and am still none the wiser. Am guessing there is a snooker player of that name – will have to read up about him on Mr Google. Apart from that I really enjoyed today’s puzzle with 1a, 27a and 28a being my favourites. Many thanks to Huntsman and Mr P.

17. I found this a trickier than normal for a Tuesday offering this week. Not sure why.
    Maybe it’s just me …

    2.5*/3*

    Favourites 10a, 1d, 5d, 14d & 24d — with winner 1d
    Smiles from 27a, 28a, 6d & 7d

    Thanks to setter & Huntsman

18. Not really my day – started off badly with little or no sleep so very grumpy – be warned everyone!
    So noisy – and too light!
    At last I found 12a and that cheered me up – such a lovely clue and answer – loved it!
    The other clue I also really enjoyed was 18d.
    I think I’ll leave it at that for today – not fair on everyone else!!
    Thanks to today’s setter and to Mr Hintsman.
    Apologies for my grouchiness!

    1. Kath doesn’t really sound so grumpy
       (Perhaps her mattress was too lumpy).
       As for me, I did the dirty –
       Her favourite clue – I put down ‘shirty’.

19. There is nothing like a sleepless night to make you grumpy, Kath. I’ve been waking between 3&4 am for a week or so now and it is getting tedious

20. Oh – didn’t realise I was commenting as well as commiserating. This all fell into place quite well apart from 23a. As bridge players we were looking in that direction, I had to turn to The Hintsman for help. 28a is my favourite. George’s party trick is rolling his stomach, sounds good if there is a pint of ale inside sloshing about. Not a pretty sight but fortunately a rare one these days. Once often to be seen at Henley. Thanks to Messrs Setter & Hintsman.

21. This was right up my straße! I loved it all. I really like when we start out easy-peasy and gradually work up to the Friday brain mangler. I bunged in 23a, I don’t see where Trump comes in, but I see I’m right. Fave is 28a, hands down.
    Thank you setter for the fun, and Huntsman for confirming 23a and explaining others.

22. Nice puzzle just right for a Tuesday 😃 **/*** Favourites 18a and 1d. Thanks to AP and to the Huntsman👍

23. Mostly enjoyable, I was a bit puzzled by 3d not quite fitting but put it in anyway and gave up on 23a and now see I would never have got it. Otherwise the rest was fair and as ever I enjoy anagrams, 28a was my favourite.

    Many thanks to the setter and to Huntsman for the hints.

24. 23a I always feel sorry for Judd Trump when I watch the snooker

25. Comforting to see that 23a snookered other bloggers as well as me. Otherwise a very smooth ride today, thank you compiler and Huntsman

26. My brain must be shrinking as I had quite a bit of trouble with this puzzle, not helped by the fact that I was looking at the incorrect version of 3D. I also made a schoolboy error by entering CARD instead of the correct second word of 1A, despite knowing it was an anagram!!

    2.5*/3* for me. Thanks to the setter and hinter.

    Mrs E dropped myself and a friend off in Stanton and we walked back to Winchcombe using the Cotswold Way and Winchcombe Way. Lovely scenery and several views of the steam locos on the GWSR line.

27. V enjoyable. 10A COTD for me.

28. At least I m not alone. This was a gentle solve but as many others I spent ages pondering 23a. Even a dog walk didn’t yield the answer. In the end I got help from the app by guessing the u , and then got the missing word although not really aware of it being a word. Thanks to setter and Huntsman.

29. Unfortunately we don’t get updates on the paper version but I reluctantly wrote the answer in to 3d muttering ‘it’s the wrong tense’ , or words to that effect, under my breath. I didn’t find this as straightforward as some especially in the south but, on reflection, probably about right for a Tuesday. Favourite was 23a although I can see why people didn’t like it. Thanks to AP and Huntsman.

30. 5d hint should be first 4 words of wordplay.

    1. It should indeed. Well spotted. Blame the earliness of the hour on my inability to count. Now corrected.

31. Good evening

    First of all, may I thank you for your lovely comments regarding the birth of my gorgeous granddaughter. Has anyone seen my heart, because I think it’s been stolen…😉😍

    On to the crozzie: I’d have agreed with Huntsman’s 1* rating up to a point; I was concerned that I’d peaked a little bit early once I got to the SW quadrant. Mind you, I didn’t help myself by spelling 26a incorrectly, which is a primary school error; and 21a took forever to twig, for some inexplicable reason.

    Then we come to 23a. Yes, I had to go to the Hints for this one! Classic misdirection! That left me with 24d, which I clicked on to get the solution, thereby making today’s effort a DNF.

    Oh aye, and 10a. First I thought it must be HEARD, ie sounds like heard, synonym for examined. Then I thought POSSE, ie mishearing of pussy. What a carry on!!

    Many thanks to Mr P and to Huntsman.

    1. I’m glad you are giving a nod to the misdirection SJ as this clue, IMO, is getting a lot of unfair treatment.

       I understand solvers saying that the knowledge is waaaaaaay too obscure but the rest of the clue is perfect.

32. Another who has virtually zero knowledge of modern snooker players. Even the hint and picture left me none the wiser. I was trying to think of card games with trump in them. Even going through the alphabet only lead me to circle, which didn’t fit.

    I thought I had misunderstood the clue for 3d. Once I had all the checkers I simply wrote the answer in

    Thanks to all.

33. Chris Lancaster says most compilers aim for about 6 anagrams per puzzle, and Prolixic says he aims for six in his guide. There are also six in the Toughie today (which incidentally is markedly more approachable than Friday’s Toughie which had none and I found impenetrable). So with the greatest respect to Mustafa and Huntsman, I was happy with this puzzle including the number of anagrams, which had good surfaces. I did wonder whether 23a was referring to a prompting device on a table/desk during a speech, but I see that there is another Trump from the hints and comments.

34. Regarding the obscurity of the knowledge required to solve 23a, I’m sure that the wider public would be far more aware of the identity of the snooker player than would recognise the allusions to Shakespeare, Greek philosophers, biblical characters and other esoteric facts that crossword clues regularly refer to. I would suggest that the problem here lies with the members of this community having a blinkered view of what constitues the outside world and not with the setter requiring the solver to have an awareness of the identity of the fourth highest all time ranking event winner and a previous world number one. I’m sure if the clue reffered to a minor counties cricket player the outrage would have been significantly less.

    1. My beef is not necessarily that the clue relies on some fairly esoteric knowledge of a snooker player but that this is the _only_ clue given. There is no cryptic element here to give those who don’t have the knowledge any fighting chance of working out what might be a plausible answer. There are several words which fit the checked letters and no way of knowing whether any of them is right. That’s my reason for calling this clue out as “unfair”.

       Part of the joy of doing cryptics is sometimes working out, from the cryptic fodder, a word which one didn’t know before and realising that it must be right. This clue doesn’t give me that opportunity.

       1. Absolutely spot-on, CS: the problem is not a general ignorance of snooker players, but that the clue is simply not capable of being solved without knowing who Judd Trump is and for what he is well-known.

          Here’s a contrast from last Friday’s Times puzzle: I look to seize writers with love for Homer or Milton’s work (2,9)

          I freely admit to complete ignorance of anything written by Milton other than Paradise x 2. The answer, Il Penseroso, was totally unknown to me. However that extremely obscure answer was very fairly clued, and could be answered without knowing any of Milton’s works: I+L{PENS + EROS}O Even if one were stuck for Eros (love for Homer), that element is eminently guessable given the checkers, which if I recall correctly were E-O-

          And that’s the difference between the two clues: one has an obscurity without knowledge of which it cannot be solved; the other has an (even greater) obscurity, but is written to give the solver a fair chance.

    2. Hi ATIB

       Judd is the world number 2 who’s a real character and dynamic to watch. But, as the average age of the solvers on this blog is, if memory serves me right from Mr K’s survey, over 65+, and it’s a minority sport, it was always a longshot from AP which has clearly not come off.

       I admire him giving it a go as he was clearly hoping that the surface would trump the required knowledge.

       Onwards!

35. 3*/3* … not really interested in snooker players …
    liked 28A “Stomach-turning entertainers? (5,7)”

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