DT 30699

121 comments on “DT 30699”

1. After breakfast I usually promise myself that I’ll have my first cup of tea as soon as I’ve completed exactly half the clues. Today it was after three of them, as I was absolutely parched.

   This puzzle now holds the record for the amount of times where I was sure I’d give up, after five clues, then seven, eleven, fifteen, and so it went on, but the inner stubborn streak just wouldn’t let it go, until the last one remained, 22d.

   How can a five letter word with three already in it be so hard? Finally got it though, but had to work backwards to SEe why.

   Talk about not being on the right wavelength today, I didn’t even have the damn radio turned on. Some brilliant clues nonetheless, two favourites today being 23a and 7d.

   Well done to or setter today for taking up most of my morning, it was raining anyway………

2. At first blush this looked tough. Then a few came. Then it flowed. Then I really enjoyed it! 5d and 17a were highly but there were several outstanding clues. Not sure who the setter is but I don’t think it is our usual Thursday setter. Thank you Shabbo for throwing complete light on some of the answers. An excellent setter. ***/*****

3. The clue to 3D is completely different in my e telegraph.

4. Just seen the hints, my (online) clue for 3d is totally different, any ideas why?

   1. Must have written this at the same as GT above….

   2. In the original clue (Several companies in America almost crazy Leo acquires), apart from the nonsense surface read I can’t see why it would be used instead of the one in Shabbo’s review.

5. Well, we’re certainly now at the business end of the week with this little tester.

   Saying that, I flew through most of it in good time but the north west pushed me into the next time zone. The snooty sleuth, lethal drink and bizarre TV series may evoke a couple of harrumphs but fairly gettable from the clues.

   I have to dock half a point for the unindicated Aussie term for prison (apologies to the setter if I’ve got that wrong).

   Other than that, it was an enjoyable tussle with 26a, 3d and 9d getting on the podium.

   Many thanks to the setter and Shabbs.

   4*/3.5*

   1. Rare and quaint slang, sure, but It’s not Aussie, Tom. I see Collins has it as an Aussie verb. But the noun is definitely used over here and Chambers agrees. “To find oneself in ******” etc.

      1. Thank you, ALP.

         4 stars for enjoyment, it is.

6. Wow, that was a struggle! It took me ages to get my first answer and I made very slow progress after that. Obviously a wavelength issue.

   I got 1A from the cryptic part of the clue but have never come across it as a synonym of prison.

   Just a relief to finish it really and I can’t say anything is a favourite.

   ****/** Thanks to Shabbo for the hints.

7. Sorry but this was not for me. I simply could not get a toehold and threw in the towel. I may look at it later but there are other things that need doing. Not being a huge fan of TV I had never heard of the series and the third person completely eluded me. I bet Brian will not like that. 😁

   Thank you, setter for the brain mangling. It’s not your fault I couldn’t get into it because all clues were fair. Thank you, Shabbo for explaining a lot.

   I’m afraid the Quickie pun did not work for me. Pronunciation, I guess.

   1. That person, and many other similar every-day Biblical references, surely constitute basic GK in this country (nominally Christian) whether or not one believes in god(s) – no different to knowing symbols for chemical elements, the Greek alphabet, Roman numerals, old currencies and building-block grammatical terms in my view. Always strikes me as odd that anyone should decry such fundamental awareness, but each to their own.

      1. Sorry Steve, on re-reading my post I can see my words may be misinterpreted: I did not mean (re knowing or not the name of that “third person”) to be in any way denigratory and do hope you did not take it as such: my sincere apologies if you did.

         1. I didn’t MG! 😊 I know the third person biblically speaking but just could not connect him to the clue.

         2. I’m glad you said that MG. I don’t think the entire Bible is basic GK to non-believers and Christians focus on the New Testament don’t they? I did happen to know the third person, but I can’t recall in what context I would’ve heard a reference to him outside crosswords.

   2. Steve, you often refer to ‘fault’ in relation to whether crosswords can be solved. It seems to me that a professional compiler and editor must bear responsibility (broadly) for the degree of difficulty, and the solver may or may not be able to overcome it. But the solver shouldn’t be ‘blaming’ himself or herself for not finishing. It’s just a pastime. Failing to finish shouldn’t carry negative connotations really, should it?

      1. As far as I’m concerned, Mark it doesn’t. I use the word “fault” in a general sense. I am not blaming anyone and I never would. If I cannot solve a puzzle I haven’t “failed” – I merely realise I have more to learn and the learning is fun. As you say, it is a pastime and, for me, it keeps giving more and more enjoyment. 😊

         1. You and I are singing from the same song sheet Steve (I’ve always wanted to use that phrase!). I love my guzzle time but I never get over worked up about it, when I do finish it all in one sitting I think how clever I am and when I am really stuck there is always a handy Hinter to help so I can work it out. Just chill, man.
            That’s another thing I’ve never said before! Anyway, it’s too late now for anyone to read it.

            1. 👍 🙂

8. Not just me them, as I found this to be nicely testing, and a proper challenge, with the outstanding 7d my favourite once I had worked it out. Great fun all round.

   Many thanks to our setter and Shabbo.

9. Very tough – I am still ploughing my way through. I still don’ t get the “third person” in 23a – I know the word and I just don’t understand it!

   1. The third person, Biblically speaking, was CAIN.

      1. Thank You – I wasn’t aware

10. I found this tough but very enjoyable but I still don’t get the parsing 9d. I realised what it was from “Spare”; its also a book I wouldn’t pick up!

    1. A word for not happy and remove “a” and “m” (which are not the first letters)

       1. Oh yes, obvious now, thanks

11. Too much for me today…

    1. You’ve changed your alias so this needed moderation. Both versions of your alias will work in future.

12. 3d has a different clue in the Android phone app: “Several companies in America almost crazy Leo acquires”.
    Any idea why? (I’m still very new to cryptic puzzles)

    1. Last minute edits that happen after Shabbo started his blog – it happens occasionally and I am sure Shabbo will add another hint when he gets home

       1. I have to say I prefer this (presumably original) version of 3d as a surface. Though the “companies” definition is sharper, to be fair.

    2. Setter here, apologies for this. I have alerted the Puzzles Editor and he has now changed the online clue to read the same as per Shabbo’s Hints and Tips, i.e. the one in the printed newspaper.

       Neither Chris Lancaster nor I can quite understand how this occurred. It definitely was not a “last minute edit”. The original clue you quoted was the one I drafted originally, but the Puzzles Editor came up with the much better alternative version and therefore you ought not to have encountered this particular wording. Sorry again.

       1. This was your offering? How could you do this to me? I thought we were friends!

          1. Sorry, Merusa!

             As you know by now, they are not always this challenging. I don’t enjoy it when you are “swimming in molasses”, I promise!

             1. Please come home, all is forgiven! OXO

13. Still working my way through this one. Absolutely agree with the **** rating; I’m finding this extremely difficult. I only answered two on my first lap. I am needing a lot of help from Big Dave today.

    I too have never heard of prison being called lumber.

    However, an enjoyable crossword that has essentially beaten me judging by the amount of help I’m needing.

14. An absolute belter, this. My money’s on Toblerone. 18d (my favourite detective of all time) just seems very him. Trickiest of the week so far, no doubt. But it was a delight from start to finish. The GK in 7d (super clue) pushed me, for sure. I can’t see anyone quibbling with these surfaces but I may, of course, be wrong. I thought they were as smooth as you like apart from, perhaps, the slightly odd-looking 3d. The only synonym I actually questioned (and, on reflection, I really don’t know why) was 17a’s ”obscenity”. And that’s lifted straight from Chambers. Doh! 26a (naughty but not double-naughty) reads beautifully, 2d made me smile and 17d’s anagram is smart. 9d’s excellent, too – love that “put down”. Etc. Huge thanks to our setter and Shabbo.

    1. What’s naughty about 26a? It was one of the few I got straight away, though admittedly initially from the definition and then working out the wordplay.

15. Horses for courses. I found very little in this puzzle to recommend it, did not enjoy it in the least, and was relieved to have put down the pen at the completion of the final clue, 1a. Awkward / nonsensical surface reads, some (to me) questionable synonyms/tenses, precious little humour, and the extreme rarity of getting to the end and finding I had not ticked a single clue as even close to being a highlight.

    Thank you but sorry, setter, I clearly got out of bed on the wrong side to be so unable to appreciate your challenge. Thanks also to Shabbo for the blog, which somehow and fortunately I did not need, though the BRB was referenced a couple of times.

    1. Hi Mustafa,

       I must be approaching around five thousand clues now for Telegraph back-page and Toughie puzzles, but I would be very annoyed if I submitted even one with a “nonsensical surface” let alone several in one puzzle. For my benefit, please could you tell me which clues had nonsensical surfaces today? I have read each one several times and I can’t find any that make no sense whatsoever, so I would appreciate you telling me.

       I’m sorry that this particular puzzle didn’t “float your boat”, but perhaps my next one will!

       1. As someone who usually enjoys your puzzles immensely, I am flabbergasted that this was one of yours, Sylvanus – even had I made a list of 100 possible setters for this puzzle, your name would not have featured! Those surfaces I felt awkward or nonsensical included 3d (I printed the puzzle around 9am and it had the “several companies” version), 7d & 10a (though the instructions in both were clear and the answers straightforward). Other people view those clues differently and, as I said, “I clearly got out of bed on the wrong side” this morning, sorry.

          MG

          1. Advice: Push your bed up against a wall!

             1. 🤣🤣

          2. Thank you, MG.

             I’m always interested to read your opinions (and those of many others who never resort to intemperate language or ranting) as they are usually well-considered and thoughtful, but I do think each one of the clues you’ve mentioned makes perfect sense. But then I would say that, wouldn’t I?!

             1. They make sense to me.

                1. Toadie! I do agree, mind.

          3. 4 clues (10a, 17a, 2d, 6d) required reversing letters to get the answer. These often seem harder to me than those that don’t. 4 others (12a, 26a, 9d, 22d) required a word to be identified and then modified before an answer was clear, also more difficult for me. All added up to a greater challenge than usual. Loved 23a.

             1. You’ve changed your alias since your previous comment so this needed moderation. Both aliases will work from now on.

16. Certainly a marked step up in difficulty compared to the previous three days with some of the whys (27a + 7&9d) requiring a good head scratch. No particular favourite but very much enjoyed both the puzzle & the review.
    Thanks to the setter (no idea) & to Shabbo – glad that you had a great week away.
    Ps the miserable weather has put the kibosh on a planned lunchtime game of golf so it’ll have to be the Beam Toughie listening to John Lee Hooker’s album Chill Out prompted by 14a

17. A lot of guesswork was in olved in doing this guzzle, particularky ubtge top half. I had never heard of 1a and 25a but managed to work them out but agree with the comment above about why you would ever want to mix lager and ciser. The literary clue at 18d was fun ,and the lego clue at 3d was clever (although the clue on the app was different to the one Shabbo has above Thanks to Shabbo for the hints and to the conpiler for a challenging curate’s egg of a ouzzle

    1. “A pint of 25a & Black, please” – used to be very popular among teens when I was growing up: sweet & alcoholic, the blackcurrant cordial making it easier to drink what was usually far too much of an evening. A precursor to alcopops!

       1. There was a ghastlier version and I forget what it was called but it involved an added shot of port and then the barman would heat it up slightly by inserting a hot rod. Maybe it was a Manc thing! Even worse than it sounds..

       2. 25a and black was known as a Purple Nasty.

          Cloudy, fuzzy days…hic!

18. The picture at 8d is a pillory, stocks tether just the feet, got me pedant hat on today!

    1. No flies on TC!

    2. Yep.

       

       1. What’s this then? Pillocks?

          

          1. Brilliant!

          2. Love it!

          3. That’s great

    3. Thank you. I didn’t know that.

19. Well that was tough. I thought I was having a dim day but can see I am not alone. I only finished using the check answer function as I could not parse several of the answers. Thanks to the hints I now understand them. I did not know 1a or 25a. I had the same 3d clue as Shabbo in the digital edition. I am pleased I stuck at it.

    Many thanks to the setter and to Shabbo for the hints

20. Quite a head scratcher with quality cluing but obviously not a Ray T Thursday – none of his usual indicators and his alter ego is on Toughie duty. It seems to me that it does have the hallmarks of the other setter who frequently provides us with a cranial challenge on a Thursday so my two shiny new King Charles Loonies are being put on this being a Mr Smooth production – 3.5*/4.5*

    Candidates for favourite – 13a, 23a, 26a, 7d, and 24d – and the winner is 7d.

    Thanks to Silvanus, of whomsoever if my Loonies go down the drain, and thanks to Shabbo.

    1. On reflection, I think you’re right, you know. My Silvanus radar has been bang out of whack lately.

21. Well I didn’t get on with this at all, sorry. Maybe lack of sleep. Captain told us last night we were skipping today’s port because of the weather and we would be in gale force 9/10 until 3pm today. Not very pleasant so am jealous of Shabbo having lovely weather at home! Calming down now. Thanks to setter despite all and Shabbo for revealing all.

    1. I hope you don’t get seasick!

22. This was something of a curate’s egg for me and I struggled to get in tune but did eventually make it but without very much fun in negotiating it. Think I had heard of 25a but needed a prompt – sounds horrid anyway. 6d unparsed as were 15d and 18d. Drew complete blank on 17d. Thanks to setter and Shabbo.

23. Mixing lager and cider was a sure fire way of getting drunk in my youth. Having completed this, I feel like I need one even though it is just 7am here. A rude awakening after the past few days and I wonder what the tuffie is going to be like.

    Thanks to all and to the chambers red book

    1. No more difficult than this one & well worth a look.

24. Quite tricky I thought but with some top-notch clues – thanks to our setter and Shabbo.
    My rosettes were pinned on 17a, 23a, 26a and 9d.

    Those who struggled or gave in on this one may like to know that Beam (aka Ray T) is on duty in the Toughie slot; just remember that Beam doesn’t do anagrams.

25. No…. no… Oh no…. NO!
    Oh gosh – sorry – I was having a nightmare in which I was staring at a page of grossword glues and I became a gibbering wreck as all the words appeared to move towards me in a confusing and bewildering whirlwind.
    Oh, hang on! I’m awake and this is reality!
    The simulation hypothesis is an interesting theory. It proposes that we are all existing in a simulated reality, and we humans are constructs within that simulation. If we are all living in a computer program, directed by a process outside of our physical comprehension then this crossword makes sense.

    Thanks to the setter and Shabba-dabba-doo.

    

    1. Verily, verily!

26. An excellent Thursday offering. Fine clues, nicely challenging and an enjoyable solve. Favourate: 9d. 3.5*/4.5*.

    1. Favourite!

       1. At least favourate is better than favorite. 😉

27. Whoopee – it’s Dream Team day again and Mr Smooth certainly set us a challenge with his contribution. I did need Mr G’s help to verify the prison and was slow on the uptake when it came to 8&22d but thought this was an excellent Thursday puzzle.
    13a made me smile, shades of family Sunday evenings when I was a child, and my rosette winners were 26a plus 7&18d.
    Learnt something new with the Quickie pun – I’ve obviously been pronouncing the place incorrectly all my life!

    Many thanks to Silvanus and to the weary grandfather, Shabbo, for the review.

28. It’s a good job I don’t time myself because that took most of the morning interspersed with other activities (including a visit to my granddaughter who got some very creditable GCSE results today) I cannot claim an unaided finish as I made much use of the LRB in my search for relevant synonyms. However I did enjoy the challenge even though I felt frustrated at times. 1a was new to me as was the strange phrase at 21a and the old name for cattle. Favourite was 7d with podium places for 13a and 2d. Thanks to our setter for the workout and Shabbo,whose help was needed with 27a and 22d.

29. I didn’t find this easy! The clue at 3d was a mystery to me, and I failed to complete the puzzle with 18d unsolved; I’d never of got that one.
    Thanks to Silvanus and to Shabbo.

    1. 3d – Club = Bat; Thanks = Ta; Courageous person = Lion. 😊

       1. That’s the revised clue.
          My version was “Several companies in America almost crazy Leo acquires”.
          Silvanus has since clarified..

30. 5*/4*. This was as tough a back-pager as I can remember, but a challenge well worth tackling over several sittings.

    Although I wasn’t keen on having a random number of “points”, I entered the plausible but incorrect answer “tenseness” for 19a. This fitted the wordplay as well as the checking letters that I had at the time, and the definition was only slightly stretched. This of course messed up the NE corner until I realised the error of my ways.

    My podium comprises 26a, 7d & 18d.

    Many thanks to the setter for a hard but enjoyable workout. Thanks too to Shabbo.

31. Thanks silvanus for the challenge and shabbo for the much needed assistance!
    I could point out that a 2d is not an abscess, but that would be churlish considering my failures elsewhere…..

32. As this is RayT’s week off, we have a different type of puzzle as this is a different setter. For me, I found this far more troublesome than a RayT. puzzle due to this setters clueing and me trying to fathom the parsing. Not my favourite puzzle this week. It’s just me, I suppose. I am so used to being able to hit the RayT. wavelength consistently.

    2.5*/3* for me today.

    Favourites 13a, 7d, 18d, 20d & 24d — with winner 7d
    Chuckles and smiles from all of these as well.

    Thanks to Silvanus & Shabbo
    Looking forward to RayT. next week.

    1. You can have Ray T today if you switch to the Toughie.

    2. Certainly not just you!

33. 7d (£1·05) was my favourite. I needed Shabbo’s hint for the 1a prison, and I didn’t know 27a’s cattle either.

    I found this quite tough, with elaborate wordplay in some clues (though a few others were so obvious from their definitions that they could be written in immediately). Thank you to Silvanus and Shabbo.

34. In the beginning was Adam and Eve. They had two sons, Cain and Abel. Cain killed Abel. Cain went on to have a son Enoch. Here is my puzzle – who was Enoch’s mother.?

    1. Hi John
       You are using a different alias – all three should now work on future posts.

    2. Brian’s your man for that one, JP.

    3. Mrs Powell?

       1. Like it, Sloops.

35. Agree with RD for a *****/****, a toughie if ever there was one!
    Last in was 9d and even with Shabbo, the parsing still eluded me!
    7d was my favourite, eventually the guinea provided the D’oh moment and not the roman alphabet, liked the 25a charade.
    Thanks to all, back to the cricket.

36. Oh dear the Toughie has escaped again. Made little sense and absolutely no fun at all. A waste of good electrons for me.
    *****/0
    Thx for the hints

37. I was completely off wavelength here and have to throw in the towel. I did manage the SW but the rest has me beaten. We’ve had such a good week so far, I have no complaints as I’m sure many will love this.
    Thanks to setter, and to Shabbo, I’ll now look at the answers and see how it’s supposed to be done.

38. Many thanks, as ever, to Shabbo and to all those commenting.

    My last two back-page puzzles were generally described as “benign” or “gentle”, so I think it’s good to present a stiffer challenge once in a while.

    Sorry again about the change to 3d for those solving online.

    1. Thank you for the puzzle, silvanus. I’m afraid I couldn’t get on with it but that is down to me not you. As I said above, it was all fairly clued.

39. That was a challenge .. glad to see the four star difficulty rating.
    Thanks to complier and to Shabbo for the hints, I needed them to parse 9d and even then it took some time for the penny to drop.
    Cotd 7d, I was really pleased with myself to recognise the guinea (21/- twenty one shilllings). I still recall Decimal Day in Feb 1971!!!

40. I enjoyed this challenge which I found difficult but doable. Hard to pick a favourite but I’ll go with 7d, there were quite a few other contenders. Thanks to Silvanus and Shabbo.

41. This is much too hard for me – I don’t even really understand most of the clues, let alone work out the answers!
    I’m heading off to have a go at the Toughie/Beam and laughing at Gazza’s cartoons!
    With thanks to all the work gone into Silvanus’s and Shabbo’s – think my apostrophe’s have gone wrong!

42. Silvanus really made us work in this house today, but with son and granddaughter visiting, we fought through to the end. Glad to see that we weren’t alone in finding it a challenge.
    Some very nice clues- 25A, 26A, 7D, & 24D were my favourites.
    Many thanks Silvanus and Shabbo.

43. Saw the **** Shabbo rating, and he wasn’t wrong. This one clearly got lost on its way to its rightful slot in the Toughie. I gave it my best effort, and then moved on to the hints. The unheard of slang for prison, the TV series I have never seen, inclusion of Hardy (one of my least favourite authors) and a very strange synonym for underway finished me off. Not forgetting that syndicate means a group meeting in a common interest, according to my research, no mention of criminal, but I am sure someone will find a criminal definition. Definitely not one for me. Might all be because of a late breakfast following fasting bloodwork. Never mind, tomorrow is another day, albeit Friday. Thanks to Silvanus and Shabbo. Hope you have a nice time relaxing after being very busy hosts.

44. An indicator of a stimulating puzzle might be the quality of feedback it generates …. as with today …despite a publishing error and dubious criticism about the smoothness of clueing. I found it all very tough but Silvanus has really challenged us so therefore a big thank you – and Shabbo wish you could get some kind of remuneration!

45. Had to give up in the end. Too difficult for me to complete. I answered only 13 without help and 9 with help, leaving 10 unanswered.

    I’m not entirely convinced that pass over can mean negotiate. Go over perhaps, but pass over? No.

    Still, enjoyable.

46. A DNF for me. I knew the cattle and the TV series but am too young to know the value of a guinea which is an excuse I can rarely use nowadays.
    I did like 19a, 23a and 8d.
    Also enjoyed the quickie pun.
    Thanks to Shabbo and Silvanus.

47. My first ever comment on this site and the first DT crossword I’ve given up on in about 2 years! Couldn’t get into it at all today. Better luck tomorrow, hopefully. 😳

    1. Welcome bigtedski, although you have made one previous comment as ‘Craig’.
       Today’s puzzle was quite tricky. You might like to try the Toughie (by Beam, aka Ray T) which I and most commenters found a bit easier.

       1. So I did. Totally forgot. Thanks for the steer to the toughie.

48. My word, silvanus, that was a challenge! Got there in the end, but needed Shabbo to explain why a couple of times. Going for 7d as fave, just because it was funny!
    Many thanks, silvanus and to you too Shabbo for the needed hints.

49. 1 across and 2 down got me straight away..didnt know Lumber was prison and didnt know an Abscess was an ulcer..?
    Thanks though…it was tough but enjoyable..2 hours though…😣

    1. An abscess isn’t an ulcer. They are totally different but, hey ho, this is crossword land! 🤪

50. Tricky puzzle. Made sense when some of the parsing was explained.
    Not sure that an abscess is strictly the same as the answer to 2d though?
    Thanks to setter.

51. I’m glad that I was not on my own in finding this a challenge. I thought it was going to be a spectacular dnf, but gradually chipped away and almost finished. 22d was the clue that meant a dnf. It was one of those clues that on a different day I may have solved.

    1a was a new term for me. My last clue solved was 18d. Not heard of the author let alone the sleuth so needed to Google the hint to parse.

    A bit of a beastie, but a real sense of satisfaction to solve as much as I did.

    Thanks to all.

52. Silvanus, ignore Mustafa,, that was a great challenge.
    Never having mixed lager and cider (who would?) had to research that.
    Perhaps a glass would have helped

    1. Welcome to the blog, Timkar.

53. Tricky tricky, but used to love 17d as a teenager!

54. An ulcer is definitely not an abscess!

    1. Welcome to the blog, Mike.
       What did you think of the puzzle?

55. Mostly, a Toughie. Only started looking at it late this evening and quickly realised I wouldn’t be finishing it any time soon. Hints (thanks) confirmed this view. So I’ll go for *****/* I’m afraid.

56. That was difficult. Started last night and finished this morning, but needed the blog for 27a.
    I don’t post much, but would like to thank Shabbo and all the bloggers for the sterling work you do.
    Might even print the Toughie now.

    1. Thank you for your very kind words.

57. 4*/4* …
    liked 17D “Doctor was kept in old TV series (4,5)” … used to enjoy the TV series !

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