DT 30620

108 comments on “DT 30620”

1. 4*/1*. Oh dear. Not my cup of tea at all. I could write a long list of hmms, but the less said …

   However, I did rather like 28a.

   Thanks anyway to the setter and thanks too to the 2Ks.

   1. With you all the way, dreadful quirky thing with weird words as in 27 a.
      ****/0
      No fun at all

   2. Agreed / not my wavelength at all – a bit obscure honestly for me

   3. Fully agree RD. One of the dottier offerings in along time although the anagrams gettable but most of the rest left me cold.. Apologies to the setter for showing no liking for his hard work in producing a crossword which would be beyond my ability. Thanks to the 2Ks for their unravelling work.

   4. I have always thought 18a was two words

      1. Welcome to the blog, Louisa.

         Chambers has it as hyphenated and Collins says it’s all one word.

2. Sorry but I agree with RD. I found this impenetrable in places.

   Thank you, setter but not for me I’m afraid. Thank you, 2Ks for making sense of it for me.

   1. Me too. Quite tough in places.

   2. I agree … however as I’m now an expert in post impressionist painting techniques I’m about to “gang awa” for a pub lunch!

      1. Chicago Art Gallery a few years back.

         

         1. A fine figure of a man.

   3. It really was a slog wasn’t it! Not much fun at all

3. This was very enjoyable. Lots of great surfaces with the 18a/17d comby the last one to drop. I love 14d as a word and 21d was a new term for me.

   My hotly-contested podium is the neat 12a, 22a and 18d.

   Great fun.

   Many thanks to the setter and the 2 Ks.

   3*/4*

   1. With you (again) on this one, Tom.
      I thought I should also speak up for those who enjoyed it and dive into the 18a.

      1. Is that 18a (5-3), as per the BRB, or 18a (8), as per the puzzle?

         1. Gosh! You’re clearly not a happy camper, RD.

            We often see the hyphen/non-hyphen boo-boo. By all means, make the point but it needs to be directed at editorial not the setter (apologies if you were directing it at Chris et al)

            Maybe you should vent your spleen, listing your hmms in one post, otherwise they may come out here and there throughout the day,

            1. I don’t think you of all people should be telling others to confine their views to one post!

               1. An extremely fair comment, Mark. But, my posts tend to react to people’s comments about words, one-liners, poems or life in general. More often than not, I give my thoughts about the crossy in one post.

                  It’s rare for RD not to give his views in one post.

               2. 😊😊😊 Nailed it Mark.

                  1. With knobs on! RD is one of the commenters who “knows his onions”, not a good idea to question his knowledge.

            2. You have to be careful sometimes with hyphens (not in this case, though). “You’ll have to sit on the stool – my sofa’s been recovered”. Does that mean it’s been repossessed because you’ve missed some credit repayments, or it’s still at the upholsterer’s after being re-covered?

         2. But it is listed as (8) in Collins – a justification you have used on (quite a few) previous occasions.

            1. I looked it up in Collins too, and found it there as (5,3) but I didn’t want to complicate matters by introducing a third enumeration.

               After reading your comment, I checked Collins online again and see bizarrely that there are two separate entries there (8) and (5,3).

               1. Hi RD. In his interesting book, Chris Lancaster says, “One important consideration is that we use Chambers Dictionary when it comes to giving answer lengths in our crosswords. There are many words that, depending which dictionary you look in, may be either one word, two words or hyphenated. Given a choice of (8), (4,4) or (4-4) for an answer length, we would go with whatever is given in Chambers”. 18a appears to have slipped through the net.

                  1. Thanks for that, Mark. It’s been quite a while since I read Chris’ excellent book. A refresher read might be beneficial.

4. Pretty tough for me, closer to *** than **, but al fairly clued, mostly a question of doing as you are told!

5. Far too much general knowledge for me. I really did not enjoy this.

6. Thanks to RD for confirming my thoughts on this puzzle.

   23a did raise a smile.

   Thanks to whomsoever anyway and thanks to the 2Kiwis.

   1. I hope you saw my comment yesterday about your book recommendation?

7. A couple of solutions I thought should’ve been two words, not one, so spent more time than might otherwise have been the case. Wasn’t too convinced by the use of corporate, either. All in all, my usual performance of doing two thirds in reasonable time, then slipping into blank stare for the rest. I S’pose the setter is just far cleverer than I. 🤷🏻‍♂️

8. Well I enjoyed it a lot more than RD did but I’m with him in terms of his assessment of the difficulty – certainly a guzzle that 1a (me anyway). The 27a order of flying insects was unfamiliar, the Scottish dialect an almighty head scratch & you could write everything I know about hut construction over the pond on a quarter of a postage stamp with room to spare. Got there in the end but did use the check grid facility on two occasions so not a strictly unaided solve. Last in 15a was my favourite for the slow penny drop & also liked 18&23a plus 14,17&21d.
   Thanks to the setter & to the 2Ks – rather you than me blogging this one.
   Ps today’s music is a bit of Donny live & the solve lasted the whole album. His version of Imagine knocks spots of the original for me

   1. I meant Jealous Guy

      1. That’s a great interpretation, but for me Roxy Music’s version is still the best of the lot.

         1. Love that too but Donny has the edge.
            Do you agree it’s a wrong envelope day today. Hudson’s Toughie was a breeze compared to this one.

            1. The Hudson puzzle is absolutely brilliant, very accessible, and I strongly urge those who don’t usually give Toughies a go to try this one.

               Can’t say it’s a ‘wrong envelope day’ because I tuned-in to and really enjoyed this back pager too.

               1. I couldn’t agree more, MG. I’m pretty certain that those who didn’t take to this will LOVE Hudson’s “Toughie” which isn’t really tough at all, just expertly done and very friendly indeed.

                  1. Fully agree

9. I wii buck the trend by saying that I enjoyed this one with a good level of trickiness and GK.

   Favourites 10a, 18a and 23a.

   27a was a new word for me. In 17d, is the generic name for a “plant that grows up walls” not the second part of the name rather than the first word which appears here?

   Thanks to the setter for the entertainment and the 2Ks for a couple of parsings.

10. A proper midweek challenge which I enjoyed a lot – thanks to the setter and 2Ks.
    I must remember (for the umpteenth time) not to write in the third word of the 1a answer until I have a checker.
    My ticks went to 1a, 23a, 4d and 21d.

    1. Another member of the One Club! Snap! Held up 5d for ages!

       1. And me

11. As much as i enjoyed yesterday’s romp, ~~I found this incomprehensible and consequently lacking any enjoyment whatsoever Not for me, I’n afraid. Thanks to the 2Ks for making some sense of it.

12. I also enjoyed this puzzle. The top half went in quickly with no particular hold ups but I did find the lower half trickier. LOI was 18a as I foolishly read wind wrongly. Concur with the 2Ks **/**** for me. Thanks to the setter and the 2Ks for the hints.

13. Incredibly hard. I needed several hints.Thanks to the setter for the challenge (™ Steve Cowling).

    H’s birthday today; it is being celebrated in different ways over the next few days. Today we go out to luncheon and then a lovely walk.
    Tomorrow, a mystery trip; and on Saturday, dinner out with The Youngster.

    Thanks to the setter and The TwoKays

    1. I hope you do not have the same weather as we have here in S. Cambridge it has been pouring for 24 hours. Happy birthday Lady T. 🍰

    2. Happy birthday H. I hope you enjoy the celebrations planned!

14. Well I really enjoyed this though it was definitely more difficult than the 2K’s star rating for me. Started at the bottom as the long anagram at 28a came to me straight away. 27a needed a trip to the BRB even though the lurker seemed obvious, likewise 11a. I too was held up by the enumeration of 18a, my LOI. No overall favourite today but I did like 19a, 26a and 20d. Thanks to our setter and the 2 Kiwis.

15. I enjoyed this, with either 1a’s fat reduction or 12a’s sign my favourite, and plaudits for 23a’s hoodlums, 4d’s kind, 21d’s details, and 24d’s “time after time” (though I feel that poetic inspiration has cropped up a lot in crosswords recently; but maybe that’s more the PlusWord and Cross Atlantic). Thank you to the setter.

    There lots of words outside my vocabulary, including 7d’s girlfriend, 18d’s wind, 11a’s hut component, and 27a’s insects — I used an anagram solver for the first two of those, and a letter-matcher for the other.

    I didn’t know 23a’s “Scot’s go” either, but it was guessable as a variant on the Geordie “gan”, as in “🎵 Gannin’ alang the Scotswood Road, to see the Blaydon Races.”

    Thank you to the Kiwis for explaining 13a’s wordplay, where I’d only got as far as seeing that ‘copper’ featured in the answer, but the “French art” was beyond me. And thank you also to Django, without whom I wouldn’t’ve known the 2d corporation; he’s used it in a couple of puzzles recently. Those plus the obscure words did make it feel for me℠ a bit more like a Toughie.

    [℠=registered SenfMark]

16. All I all quite fun and educational. Had to look up the Seurat clue to get the point and also the toothy sounding 27a just to check.
    As I said above had the wrong 3rd word in 1a, making 5d hard to get right.
    But the clue of the day has to go to 7d, bringing with it memories of Flanders and Swann and the gloriously muddy hippo song! (…adjusted her garter…)
    Many thanks to the setter and to the pair down under.

    1. Of course, F&S, I was trying to remember where I’d heard 7d. What memories!

17. A top-notch Wednesday offering with great clues providing a Friday-type challenge and an enjoyable solve. No complaints at all about this one. 27a was a new word for me, but easy enough to parse and confirm online. Difficult to pick a favourite clue, but I’ll go for 23a. 3.5*/4*.

18. couldn’t finish without the hints.
    even then some very strange words in there. I think ****/**

19. On reading these early comments I had to double-check that we’d been tackling the same puzzle. Evidently the moo-juice in my coffee contained the right sort of additives to get my LGCs firing at nearly full efficiency, for all bar two clues were answered on the first pass. Those final two, though … 18a caused a groan, eventually, and 17d a hummmm (IMV Virginia on its own is not a plant that climbs up walls – that’s Virginia Creeper). A couple of odd surfaces but COTD for me 18a, followed by 28a, and 22a for the aspiration!

    1.5* (the extra 1* for the final two clues) / 4*

    Many thanks to the setter and to Huntsman

    1. Ooops – while I would of course be grateful to Huntsman, in this instance I should have thanked the 2Ks – sorry!

20. I also enjoyed it, sitting in the conservatory with rain pelting down. No help from George either as he is off on a Lads Lunch. One or two bung ins as in 11a so thanks for your parsing Tookays. You are right about Flanders and Swann with 7d – I think I now have an earworm for the rest of the day, and what would guzzle land do without the muses, and that one in particular? My favourite is 21d as it made me laugh, and I am going to try and show you my work in progress 7d peacock, although it is yew not Holly. I hope you can make it out, it does need clipping. I have 3 other examples in the garden one of which IS Holly!
    Many thanks to the setter and the Tookays.

    

    1. I can certainly see your peacock taking shape, DG, well done!

       1. Absolutely – the structure is clear and it’s going to be splendid!

21. And here is the Holly.

    

    1. Looks like it’s clapping its hands about your progress with the peacock. Bravo!

22. The papers were delivered late to my paper shop this morning so I waited in the car for half an hour , the rain bouncing down. I wish I’d have gone home after trying this offering. Normally I like general knowledge but in a GK crossword. Enough said.! On a positive spin.
    I did like the answer to 9a but just couldn’t quite get the point. A fan of 27a since I’d taught modules on insects for several years. I’ll do the toughie now it should be a lot simpler
    Many thanks to the two Kiwis

23. Lots to like in this one – and quite a bit to moan about, but I shan’t repeat what’s s been said. Favourite? 18A. ***/****

    Thanks to the 2Ks, particularly for explaining my bung in at 13A.

24. As usual for a Wednesday not a puzzle I really liked. Some weird/strange words in this too … at least three of them.
    Never heard of the term in 21d either.
    Just kinda took the edge off the fun.

    3*/2.5*

    Favourites include1a, 28a, 5d & 8d — with winner 5d
    None that really made me smile or chuckle.
    Just not my cuppa again this Wednesday.

    Thanks to setter & 2K’s for having to decipher this Wednesday puzzle again.

25. I struggled with this but got there in the end. I had to check that 11a was a thing and also 27a but it couldn’t have been much else.
    Last one in was 18a having stared at it for ages and thinking the depression was dip at the end.
    Top picks for me were 9a, 18a and 2d.
    Thanks to the 2Kiwis and the setter.

26. Too many poor surface reads and reliance on relatively obscure GK to make this an enjoyable back-pager for me. I accept that some people appreciated it, the rest of us can simply look forward to tomorrow.

    Apologies to our setter – I can hazard a guess but will keep quiet – and thanks to our 2Ks for the review.
    Back now to helping No.2 daughter come up with ideas for her 4-year-old’s mermaid party!

    1. Are you thinking T by any chance ?

       1. I might be…………

27. Not for me today, sorry setter.

    Thanks for the hints but to be honest I just gave up.

    BTW Scots dialect where I live for “go” is gan not gang . Going is gannin’ .

28. I appear to be one of the minority who enjoyed this challenging puzzle.
    I have learnt a bit about post-Impressionist art today thanks to 9a, although the answer was gettable without that knowledge.
    I carelessly misspelt 18d, which left me trying to justify ocarina at 26a.
    All’s well that ends well.
    Thank you setter and the Kiwis.

29. I woke up in the small hours and decided to taxkle rhis guzzle but it was so hard, particularly on the left hand side, that I thought it was Friday. Iagree with Jane that the surface reads of the clues needed to be more polished I finished it but had to ask for for 14d and 18a 2 clues fromthe app. Ao like others, although I liked 18d, I found that this wasn’t very enjoyable . Thanks to the Kiwisfor the hints and ro rhe compiler for his efforts

30. Try to see it his way
    Do you have to keep disagreeing till you can’t go on?
    While you see it your way
    Run the risk of knowing setter may move on.

    We can work it out
    We can work it out

    Think of what your saying
    You can disagree and still you think that it’s all right
    Think what the setter’s saying
    He can say it his way and still be right.

    We can work it out
    We can work it out

    Life is very short and there’s no time
    For fussing and fighting my friends
    I have always thought that it’s a crime
    So I will ask you once again
    Try to see it his way
    You can both be right or both be wrong.
    If you only see it your way
    There’s a chance you might fall apart and he’ll be gone.

    We can work it out
    We can work it out.

    Apologies to Lennon and McCartney.

    1. Take a bow! 👏👏

    2. Very clever Pip!
       I’m afraid I failed to work it out so the 2 K’s were very much needed. 28a was what I thought about my completion of this guzzle. I think the rain has dimmed my solving ability. Tomorrow is another day! Thankyou all

       1. A typo in your name sent you into moderation

          1. Sorry!

             1. I had my eye lasered this morning so hopefully I will be able to see more clearly and correctly spell my name tomorrow. 😎

    3. 👏👏👏
       I like a little poetry alongside all the prose. You’ve hit the nail upon the head, or maybe, on the nose?

31. After a rather slow start, picked up the pace and managed to finish OK. A couple of words that I didn’t know but were fairly clued and quite gettable. This guzzle seems to have split us into two separate camps, roughly 50/50 which I think is quite interesting. Torrential rain today – my potatoes growing in their potato sacks were looking absolutely tremendous but now all the foliage is lying flat on the ground and I don’t see how they will ‘get up’ again. Hey ho – I blame it all on DG just south of Cambridge as she sent her weather up here. Thanks to the setter and to the 2 birds for an enjoyable romp.

    1. Oy, steady on. We still have the deluge and I am trying to persuade George to start building an ark.

32. I think Bob Stokoe is wetter than I am but not by much

    Fine crossword – took my mind off the rain I do like Seurat but this isn’t a Sunny Afternoon on the Grand Jette

    

33. In the minority, perhaps, but I really enjoyed this: playful, thought-provoking and with some nice challenge in terms of GK. Several clues that I thought might be a bed of nails turned out to be not too bad, and the clueing was very fair.
    Many thanks.

34. As Douglas Adams said, “mostly harmless”, but with a few head-scratchers to give it some pizzazz, especially since I initially had the wrong answer to 18d which held me up for a few minutes and made 18a impossible. So ***/***1/2 for me. Thanks to the setter and 2K’s.

35. Much as I was looking forward to the cryptic after our holiday, this was not what I had in mind. Seems I should have spent my time reading up Latin names… oh dear. In all my many years, I have never heard anyone actually refer to their girlfriend as 7d, etc. Truly weird and stretched today IMHO. 1a was brilliant though but misled me into thinking I was in with a chance. 28a was another. But after a few more it was just too off the wall. Thanks to the setter and to the 2Kiwis.

36. I want to get in the pool soon, so I’ll come back and read the comments later. This was waaaaay above ** for me, I’m DNF with 7, mostly in the NW, my worst result since the Zandio. I solved the two long ‘uns easily, needing the 2Ks to explain 1a. These helped with checkers. I was fixated on pointillism for 9a, just couldn’t get “point” in there, and never heard of 11a so stood no chance with that. Some nice gimmes, otherwise I would have been swimming in molasses again; the wind, Portuguese capital, the cut holly were just some. Fave of those solved was 28a.
    Thank you setter, you beat me, and much appreciation to the 2Kiwis for unravelling that lot.

37. The best thing about this puzzle was 7d with its nod to Flanders and Swan

38. As a newcomer to cryptics, I have to wonder why a puzzle of this difficulty is published as well as the “Toughie”? The difficulty level seems to be increasing in the last few months which makes my subscription renewal decision a bit easier.

    1. As a long-time Telegraph solver, I can’t see that the standard puzzle has become any harder over the years. I think the clueing has become more precise, which is a good thing.
       As far as I know there was never a policy of reducing the difficulty when the Toughies started – those were bonus puzzles where compilers were given the latitude to write clues as hard (and fair) as they wanted to, but not all the time. Averaged out over the week I reckon the Telegraph “back page” crossword is still easier than those in the Times, Guardian and Indy.

       1. The Graun & Indy certainly harder in my view.

39. A curates egg of a puzzle good in parts but some very difficult parsing needing assistance 😳
    ****/** 🤔 Favourites 18a & 16d Thanks to the 2 x Ks and to the unknown compiler (possibly someone who usually sets the Friday crossword) 😬

40. This was a marmite crossword it would seem today.

    For me this was more of a did not start than a dnf. Not on the wavelength at all.

    Thanks to all.

41. I thought this merited *** or **** as I found it quite difficult but did get satisfaction from the challenge.

    1. Welcome to the blog, Jane.

    2. Welcome from us too.

42. I have now finished but needed the hints for 18a. When I saw the star rating from the 2kiwis I thought I must have been having a bad day but I can see from the comments that I am in good company. This puzzle seems to have pretty much split the blog into two camps. Several of my answers were guesses due to my deficient GK. I am glad to have finished, I learnt some new words but it was harder work than a usual Wednesday.

    Many thanks to the setter and to the 2 kiwis whose hints were needed to unravel several of my answers.

43. Morning all.
    Today’s set of comments have left us surprised and somewhat flummoxed. Perhaps it was because we did know everything required in GK and vocabulary that it all went together in less than our average solving time. We hesitated on 27a but with the checkers in place it had to be a lurker and very easy to confirm.
    Can’t remember when there was such divided opinion on a Wednesday Cryptic, but that’s life we guess.
    Cheers.

    1. Cheer up. I didn’t think that the GK required was at all out of the ordinary – but than again when it come to football or athletics I am up the Swanee without a paddle. So I guess you can never please everyone all the time.

44. Good evening

    I’m in the camp that enjoyed the challenge of today’s crozzie. Yes there were some strange elements in the clueing, especially “French art” in 13a (which is why it’s earned joint COTD) and there were two specific instances of lack of GK, namely 26 and 27a, which I could nevertheless deduce and then look up afterwards.

    13a and 18d take joint honours.

    Many thanks to our compiler and to 2Ks.

45. Since when has TUM become a corporation…if its only 2 stars for difficulty then im out of my league on this one…harder than Fridays one…Doug Smith.

    1. A corporation is a large protruding stomach or tummy

    2. Corporation is a syonym for belly / stomach / pot belly.

46. I agree with the majority of the commentators above but not the ones who found this straightforward or enjoyable, in fact I nodded off half way through. The toughie was much easier. I’ll leave it there.

47. Another who is usually a lurker ( for past 4 years), but i took the advice of many on this site and had a go at the toughie today, which was a very enjoyable solve – so thanks for that,
    Not sure Ive seen before so many posters for a midweeker struggling with its level of difficulty. I gave up with many still to go.
    Not sure I understand the DT crossword editor policy of having a backpager significantly harder than the toughie, or having the same instrument as an answer in both. Nor how this blog can give this just 2 stars for difficulty, when it is one of the toughest.
    Many thanks to all the setters for the enjoyment given since i started regularly solving and all the bloggers who have explained the parsing and helped me improve.

    1. Someone wrote this before but I believe the standard crossword and the Toughie are two different operations run by two different editors. Today’s compiler Hudson does Toughies only. He’s not going to be given his puzzle back and told to rewrite clues to be harder. The “back page” crossword has a lower ceiling of difficulty than the Toughie, but inevitably there will be days when a comparatively tricky back page one coincides with a relatively easy Toughie.There isn’t a pile of crosswords someone is sifting into a back page tray and a Toughie tray.

48. Completed it all except for 18a. A dreadful clue to a dreadful word. Even Crossword Solver didn’t find it. Many thanks to 2 Kiwis for the explanations of the other obscure answers.

    1. Crossword Solver isn’t any good. I’d recommend Chambers Word Wizard which has a wider range of words. It includes 18 Across, a standard metaphor for a hostile situation.Two deceptive synonyms about the weather and a normal definition.What’s dreadful about it?

49. Dear oh dear !, not much fun, thought Friday had come early ****/*

50. 3*/4* …..
    liked 18A “Wind heralding depression in hostile place (8)”

51. Just catching up on old crosswords post our son’s wedding. Was I the only one who thought the answer to 2d was decor instead of muted? Realised it couldn’t be right once I had other letters for 1a so came here for a clue! This one has been a curate’s egg: some very easy clues and others impenetrable

    1. I had similar thoughts and wondered if corporation could be abbreviated that way, but I gave up and changed tack when I couldn’t find a definition for DECOR. Corporation as belly or tum comes up quite often and is worth remembering. I am sure quite a few “tums” were augmented at the wedding!

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