DT 30567

76 comments on “DT 30567”

1. This is the second puzzle in a row that has felt distinctly odd to me, doesn’t feel like any of the setters I know, so will be really interested to see (hopefully) who it is.

   1d took me quite a while, as I can think of four uses of the word ‘dope’ (doubtless there are many more) and 3d, my last in was done just by fitting in the available letters to form a word I’d vaguely heard of.

   New bird for me at 6a, but couldn’t be much else from the clue. Real sense of achievement in getting to the end of this one, nods today go to 12a and the brilliant 11d. Many thanks to our setter, great fun.

   1. Just thought of a fifth.

2. This went wrong from the start for me. Never heard of the duck. Started to enter “Ghost Stories” in at 12a and spelled the first word of 21 with a “C”!
   The best part for me today was the Quickie pun although I did like 9a.
   Thank you, setter but not for me I’m afraid. Thank you, Shabbo for the hints and making sense of it for me.
   Think I’ll crawl back into bed.

   1. How’s the toe? On the mend I hope.

      1. It’s a lot better than it was thank you, Medusa. I’ve been on antibiotics for two days now and they seem to be working.

         1. That’s good to hear.

3. A bit trickier today but it is getting towards the end of the week.
   Last one in was 16d once 19a finally fell. Took me ages to think of that particular Ford.
   Thanks to Shabbo and the setter. Enjoy your time in North Norfolk, such a lovely place.

4. Some cracking anagrams – 21a and 3d were especially good. I can’t be the only one never to have heard of 6a (I’ve just seen I’m not, phew!) but it was very fair. And I’m amazed not to have seen 9a before – lovely. Quick question for the purists: does 13d really need that “eg”? I imagine the beastly “definition by example” rules say it does but it’s such a shame because it put a massive dent in that surface for me. This was a lot of fun though, I thought. And I may be alone but I loved 23d – a superb word that should be brought back forthwith! Many thanks to the setter and Shabbo. Isn’t Wells lovely? Jealous.

   1. I think the “definition by example” rule does indeed require an e.g. or a question mark, but I agree, it does rather spoil the surface read.

      1. I was going to say something similar, Shabbo. There are so many instances where the DBE rules are incredibly helpful for clarifying the clue for the solver by not leaving all the armoury within the setter’s exclusive grasp!

      2. Ta and you’re undoubtedly right. I hate rules!!

         1. That way anarchy lies. Just saying. Notwithstanding social media.

            1. Ha! Obviously, I’m not advocating total anarchy. But there are Ximeneans and there are libertarians. And I’m afraid I’m very much of the latter bent!

   2. I make you right ALP & also thought so at the time.

      1. Good to hear. So are you saying that you would find it acceptable to lose the “eg”? I just hope Silvanus doesn’t see this as it would make him gibber!

5. Great puzzle and a much more satisfying completion as we enter the back end of the working week. Deciding to start from the ground floor paid dividends and with one ‘material’ exception it was swift and rapid progress upstairs and on to the roof, the duck being the penultimate one to fall. Great surfaces and, as Shabbo says, quite a lot of GK but all gettable from the very fair clueing. Rather heavy on the anagrams but some were wonderfully clever, and otherwise a nice variety of clue types, and plenty of amusement.

   Lots of ticks so will limit to the laugh out loud COTD 23d, with podium places to 12a, 21a and 20d

   2 / 4

   Many thanks indeed to the setter and to Shabbo.

6. Outstanding. Truly outstanding.

   The surfaces were so smooth it’s as if it was crafted by a poet which is apt with it being World Poetry Day (let’s see a good one today, please, Pip)

   Big scraps for the silverware but I’ll go with 6a (great construction), 21a and 23d.

   Many, many thanks to the setter and Shabbs.

   3*/5*

   1. One thing I forgot to say is the classic, grammatical boo-boo in 26a as it should be ‘try to’ not ‘try and’.

      I guess the clue still works if you change ‘and’ to ‘to’.

      1. I applaud your syntax Tom but it wouldn’t work with a “to”. “Try to” doesn’t mean go and “to keep quiet” is not an imperative. As we know, correct grammar is a common (and necessary) crossword casualty..

         1. I didn’t realize that. I thought setters stuck to it as much as they could.

            So, do you think the setter has intentionally made a grammatical mistake for the clue to work? If so, that is very interesting. Well, to me, anyway.

            Didn’t I read a post a while back about the etiquette of allowing connecting words like ‘to’ and ‘and’ to not be part of the parsing of a clue or have I just made that up?

            1. “And” certainly can, as here. And “to” can be a link too, of course. However, in this instance – to mean at/beside etc – I think it would jar. Well, it would for me! As for setters sticking to correct grammar. Well, ideally, yes – I love nothing more than a clue that doesn’t read like a clue. But I can see that it’s not always possible.

               1. Hmm, interesting stuff.

                  I’ve never understood the problem with split infinitives and I’m fine with conjunctions at the beginning of a sentence.

                  I’m a huge fan of ‘And another thing!’ or ‘And while we’re on the subject’

                  1. Good man!

                  2. Yes, interesting debate this one. I have said many times before, but nobody ever listens of course, setters often use nuanced grammatical jiggery-pokery, for one reason or another, in clues to make them work. Only the purists worry about such things. As BD used to say: cryptic clues are mere word puzzles, not pieces of precise literature. But don’t listen to me, my writng is probably littered with solecisms – my general grammar is pretty poor; I’ve always concentrated on pure semantics to help me tackle cryptic puzzles more successfully. As far as I’m aware, from reading about such things, most modern English guides have generally dropped specific objections to the split infinitive.

                     1. You’re right, of course, Jose. Setters invariably use grammatical jiggery-pokery. And I’m all for it … in a puzzle. In real life, grammar should make the sense clear (eats, shoots and leaves, etc) but in crosswords it has the quite the opposite job: punctuation is largely there to obfuscate.

                     2. Thanks for that J and Alpy Walpy. So, it looks like the setter used ‘try and’ to make it work. That’s that one sorted,

                        J, I love your last sentence with the conjunction at the start and split infinitive! Very funny.

                        1. Wot, you think I did that on purpose!

                           1. One of your best.

            2. Also, I do hope you don’t subscribe to the old notion that one should never start a sentence with a conjunction or split an infinitive? Because those are two absurd rules that I love to royally ignore.

   2. WORLD POETRY DAY

      The purpose of poems is: Explore
      Our conditions, with metaphor
      And imagery too.
      So words of beauty, even new
      Are welcome, evermore.

      So here’s to all of you
      Contributors old and new.
      Big Dave lives on each day
      And I can only say
      Give thanks where they are due.

      1. Unlike me, you didn’t disappoint.

         Bravo!

7. That’s more like it and quite a relief after my struggles yesterday. My rating is 2*/4* with ticks for 9a, 19a, 21a, 16d & 23d, and a special mention for the Quickie pun.

   Many thanks to the setter and to Shabbo.

   P.S. Now I’m looking forward very much to tackling today’s Toughie from Silvanus.

   1. Oh you’ll enjoy it, I reckon. It’s a surprisingly “gentle” charmer.

   2. Thanks for the tip on the Toughie. I will tackle it over a pint this evening.

   3. The Toughie won’t disappoint, RD. It contains what, for me, was the best Silvanus clue of all time!

      1. Which clue, please, Jane?
         Just doing the puzzle now.

         1. It will jump out at you immediately, Shabbo!

            1. How right you are!

         2. 1a – absolutely brilliant.

8. An excellent Thursday puzzle that was full of entertaining clues and great constructions, with the elegant 23d on top of the podium. I also liked the nice surface read of 3d. I thought at first this might be a Silvanus production until I suspected he might be on Toughie duty today.

   My thanks to whomsoever compiled this little gem, and to Shabbo.

9. Thoroughly enjoyed this one, a worthy Thursday alternative to a Mr T compilation. Only hold-ups for me were sorting out ‘Sally’ and discovering that the wild party in the Quickie pun wasn’t a rave…….
   Ticks galore with mentions for 6,10,12&21a plus 16&23d.

   Many thanks to our setter – Donny? and to Shabbo for the review – hope the weather continues to be fine for the remainder of your stay in Norfolk.

10. Found this very tricky, much harder than yesterday (contrary to at least one other comment here). Some delightful clues, though, despite this one being beyond my meagre IQ. ****/***

11. A really enjoyable puzzle – thanks to our setter and Shabbo.
    My printout sports many ticks including those for 1a, 9a, 12a and 19a.

12. Was expecting this to be at least a 4*. Took ages to get going. 21a my cotd.

13. Much more difficult for me than many crosswords lately but on looking at the hints for those did not I did not solve I was impressed by the clueing. Of those I did solve I have ticks by 21a, 3d, 13d, 23d. The anagrams and lurkers were very cleverly constructed and it was only my D grade in Crossword Studies that I found it difficult.

    Thanks again to Shabbo for elucidating the awkward clues (fmaisfm) and for once I will try two farthings on NYDK for the setter.

14. Great puzzle bottom went in before I struggled with the top.
    I think 11d is “call” for ring then anagram of “garish tip” -this held me up for a while

    1. Oops! Well spotted.
       I am out at the moment but will correct it when I’m back.

       1. I’ve taken the liberty of updating the hint for you.

          1. Thanks, Gazza. Mea culpa.
             I corrected it as soon as I got back in and before I read your comment.
             Either way, we have got it covered, so thank you.

15. Like Shabbo said in the preamble, a trickier Thursday puzzle for today. Not sure the setter today with it being RayT’s week off.
    Some good clues but some I found some of the parsing hard to figure out.

    3*/3* for me

    Favourites 9a, 14a, 21a, 25a, 26a & 16d — with winner 21a
    Smiles from 9a, 25a, 26a & 23d
    When I got the last in for me (6a) I liked it, but to a bit of research to work it out. Never heard of it.

    Thanks to setter & Shabbo for blog/hints

16. Tough but fair, very satisfying to solve unaided (apart from having to check a couple of answers with Google).
    As Shabbo mentioned there was some fairly obscure GK but everything was there in the wordplay.
    I’ll go for the clever 6a as my COTD, as it had the added bonus of teaching me some new GK.
    Thanks to the setter and Shabbo (PS your hint on 11d isn’t quite right, it’s a synonym plus partial anagram I think)

17. Welcome back to North Norfolk Shabbo – you are just above French’s Fish and Chips, recently voted one of the best in the country. If you are interested in birds there is a white tailed eagle floating about round here, or has been, Cley Wildlife Centre could probably tell you where it is. A DNF for me as I couldn’t get the material but the rest went in OK but will look at the hints for some of the parsing. Thanks to the setter and Shabbo.

    1. We love it up here. We come up twice a year, one week in spring and one week in autumn.
       No sign of the white-tailed eagle – there have been two up here apparently. One from the IoW and one from Holland. We saw the long-billed dowitcher at Cley, which I guess is your patch.
       Star species on this trip are all three egrets and a glossy ibis.
       We have already used French’s for fish and chips earlier in the week and will probably go there again this evening. First class.

18. Another tricky puzzle today, last in was 15a,not heard of the app but on the right lines with the parsing, had a guess with ‘nit’.
    so somewhat lucky.
    Todays d’oh moment was 19a and our star wars man.
    Favourites were 7d, not heard of the shock for a while and 12a ,I noted shabbo’s comment on ode to joy and Beethovens ethereal 9th is my favourite piece of music.
    Going for a ****/****

19. Didn’t know the duck even though I thought I knew a lot about them. I, am dated, so know little about apps, dating or otherwise. So the North East was only accomplished by help from one hint. Favorite 11d , silver to 27*
    A tough ride but it’s Thursday so it’s expected.
    Thanks to all.

20. Such a relief from yesterday, however, still very tricky. It is Thursday, after all. I needed Shabbo’s hints for the “why” of a few. We had 27a before, otherwise I would never have got that, nor the dating app! They were both fairly clued so I did get them. I was so surprised that so many bung ins were right, 13d for instance, completely missed the Sally bit. I liked a lot, 12a 19a and 23d stood out. I knew the duck, have no idea from where.
    Thank you setter, especially for the whew from yesterday, and Shabbo for your hints and pics.

21. A very agreeable Thursday puzzle! Great clues, a reasonable challenge and very enjoyable to solve. Difficult to isolate a favourite from such a fine collection but I’ll opt for 21a. 3*/4.5*.

    *21a. I used to love playing with Plasticine when I was a kid. A new pack of those brightly-coloured ribbed strips was an absolute delight! When I was a little older, maybe 8 or 9, my brother and I used to make a sizeable model of a human body with a hollowed out torso into which we would place all the internal organs in different colours. After, the “skin” would go back on and it was all smoothed out and made perfect. Then, quite naturally, the only thing to do was stab it a few times with one of my mother’s large sewing needles and then open the “body” up to perform a post mortem examination to determine the most likely cause of death. Marvellous, innocent fun!

    1. Love it!!

22. I seem to be losing the plot because today was another slugfest for me although not as tough as yesterday. Found South more friendly than the North. 6a duck a new one on me as was 15a dating app. D’oh penny has just dropped with a bang as to where Sally comes into 13d. Fav 11d once my myopia had realised the last word was not band. Too many bung-ins which are never satisfying. Not sure about inspiring in 10a. Thank you Mysteryone and Shabbo.

23. V long breakfast guzzle today! (Perhaps because my access to Google wasn’t working!)
    Recognised the constructions of 1a (eventually) and 23d from recent puzzles here. Actually enjoyed all the 4-letter corner cues, though needed Shabbo to point out the synonym of ‘from’, which I can’t remember seeing before.
    I’m going to break with convention and nominate ‘pudding and pie’ – the Quickie pun, as fave today!

24. Like millions
    Probably, never heard
    Of 6a, popping me
    Into 3* time.
    Solved it but thought a
    Few a dubious synonym
    Of some.
    Top marks for the anagrams
    10 and 21a.
    Smiled at 19a, like 6a who
    Knew the VP? Saw solution
    Unintentionally
    Thanks setter and Shabbo.

25. Not for me today, and rather disappointing after another tough Wednesday and Friday still to come. I imagine the number of people who knew the duck would be very small. I didn’t know the fish either, so I was up the creek without the proverbial. Found the clues distracting and not helpful. Thanks to setter, but I am clearly on a different wavelength. Thanks to Shabbo and well done for solving this lot.

    1. You have said that you found the clues unhelpful. Are these the crossword clues, or my hints/tips?
       If that latter, please help me by providing a bit more feedback, as I think I tread a fine line between providing a hint and actually giving the answer away.

26. Oh dear the Toughie has escaped once more. Gave up after 10 fruitless minutes.
    For me a waste of good newsprint (or electrons in the digital version).
    *****/0

27. Must be me, but I’m finding the crosswords a bit of a chore at the moment and really not much. For me, the last good’un was last Thursday’s Ray T. Oh well, thanks to the setter and to Shabbo.
    Suppose I could watch the ornithologist’s news quiz….’Have I got Smews for you?’

    1. Very good!

28. Early solve late post. As my course remains carry only we went to the rather charming 9 hole course at Arkley (different tee positions per hole if playing 18) – the par 3 2nd/11th was the spot where Graham Hill lost his life when his plane came down in freezing fog, which has always struck me as bizarre that he should lose his life on a golf course after all those years driving Formula 1 when it really was life threatening. A very pleasant post round pint & a meal at the ever reliable & nearby Gate pub followed.
    Thought the puzzle a cracker despite a pedestrian solve. Don’t know how but I had heard of the duck not that I’d have recognised one if had swam up said quack. I did also wonder briefly what the hell a 🛎️igraphist was before the penny dropped. Spoilt for choice for a favourite but it’ll have to be 19a with podium spots for 12&27a & a host of ✅s elsewhere.
    Thanks to the setter (Robyn would be my guess) & to Shabbo for an excellent review & his spot on ‘rant’ about grade inflation & rip off further education.

29. I needed hints for a couple, but the rest fell into place slowly but surely. I have heard of 6a, and if anyone’s interested it also features in last Saturday’s general knowledge prize crossword. (Am I allowed to say that?). Most of those puzzles are beyond me, I much prefer the cryptics! Thanks to the setter and Shabbo.

30. Not on the wavelength today at all.

    Probably got 11 clues and doubt that will change.

31. At least I solved 21a

32. Hi shabbo…this felt like a friday crossie to me…in all honesty i still dont get 1 across and 1 down explanation…thanks for trying though…your obviously a great solver…I would have given 4 stars for difficulty and 1 for fun.
    Who’s heard of a Smew lol.
    Enjoy your holiday..I love that area..thanks..Doug.

33. Really lovely puzzle, and particularly enjoyed 19a and 16d, which held me up for a bit at the end.
    Good fun, and all very fair.
    Many thanks.

34. Doable except for the duck thank you setter and Shabbo

35. Finished this morning with a lot of head scratching, I did not know the duck and had to confirm with e help. I rather liked 1a and 21a.

    Many thanks to the setter and to Shabbo for the hints

36. Really enjoyed this one. ***/*** for me. Thanks to the not Ray T setter and Shabbo for the hints. COD 21a. LOI 4d.

37. 4*/3* …..
    liked 23D “Begs lady to undress ? How shocking ! (4) “

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