A Puzzle by Fringilla
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The puzzle is available by clicking on the above grid.
As usual, the setter will be delighted to receive feedback from you, the solvers. We do ask that you remember that for most setters this is a new experience, so please only offer constructive criticism.
A review by Prolixic follows:
Having made continuous improvement with the first set of crosswords submitted by Fringilla where the commentometer went down from over 30% to under 10%, this crossword makes a distinct step backwards with the score being 8.5/35 or 24.3%. I wonder if the gap of over three years between submissions means that bad habits have returned as lessons learned have been forgotten.
Across
1a Ring after, about cancellation (6)
REPEAL: A four-letter word meaning ring after a two-letter word meaning about. Another valid solution would be recall. You need to be careful that there are no alternative solutions to the clue. This can be difficult to spot but having a test solver who might spot a valid alternative is helpful.
4a Craftsman who works with the ‘Stones? (8)
JEWELLER: Cryptic definition. Somewhat unfortunately, a second clue where there is a valid alternative. Sculptor would have been a valid alternative. Cryptic definitions are particularly susceptible to having more than one possible solution.
9a Bird to jump without looking first (5)
FINCH: A six-letter would meaning jump without the letter L (looking first). Cryptically, looking first does not indicate taking the first letter. Looking at first would work.
10a Bald Irish cop right daft to use this to make notes (9)
CLIPBOARD: An anagram (daft) of BALD I (Irish) COP R (Right). I is not the abbreviation for Irish – it is Ir. Bald Irish cop’s daft … would therefore have worked.
11a Appraisal was in the morning (4)
EXAM: A two-letter word meaning was followed by the abbreviation for in the morning.
12a Measure sealer (4)
SIZE: Double definition, the second being used when making paper.
13a River retreating in New York strait (5)
NEEDY: A three-letter name of the river that runs through Chester reversed (retreating) inside the abbreviation for New York. As the definition is an obscure or rare word for the solution, this should be indicated.
15a Love debts? Not I, Randy! (7)
AMOROUS: A four-letter word meaning love followed by the four-letter word for debts without the letter I. The four-letter word for love is not given in the dictionaries. You would need amour for this.
16a Trim hands for charity (4)
ALMS: Remove the first letter (trim) from a five-letter word for hands.
17a Low-flying creature (3)
OWL: An anagram (flying) of LOW. Three-letter anagrams are not the most challenging. Some other treatment of the wordplay would have been better.
20a Stove top kitchen in London, new (4)
KILN: The initial letters in the final four words of the clue. Top on its own does not indicate the first letters of a number of words. Tops of kitchens in London, new, would have worked.
21a Upstairs arrival? (7)
LANDING: Double definition.
24a A horse “Romeo” no hassle (5)
AGGRO: The A from the clue, the two-letter childish description of a horse and the letter represented by Romeo in the NATO phonetic alphabet and a single letter representing no.
25a Jolly short book doing word (4)
VERB: A four-letter word meaning jolly with the final letter removed (short) followed by the definition for book.
26a One of five clowns without topless Charles around (4)
QUIN: A ten-letter word for clowns without the HARLES (topless Charles). Try to avoid duplicating wordplay. Here without to indicate a deletion was used in 9a and top to indicate the first letter was used in 20a.
28a Frantic Lady to go north with toothache (9)
ODONTALGY: An anagram (frantic) of LADY TO GO N (North).
29a Task forces in sun, it seems (5)
UNITS: The answer is hidden in the final three words of the clue.
30a Leery old bastard becomes singer (8)
YODELLER: An anagram (bastard) of LEERY OLD.
31a Watch a tense nurse (6)
ATTEND: The A from the clue followed by the abbreviation for tense and a four-letter word meaning nurse.
Down
1d Disgruntled fireman left to become soldier (8)
RIFLEMAN: An anagram (disgruntled) of FIREMAN L (left).
2d Figure author almost left without thanks (8)
PENTAGON: A three-letter generic word for an author and a four-letter word meaning left without the final letter (almost) around (without) a two-letter word meaning thanks.
3d Desire pain (4)
ACHE: Double definition.
5d Phone Co bringing in 1150 ban (5)
EXILE: The name of a well-known phone company in the UK around (bringing in) the Roman numerals for 11 and 50. I think for this clue to work is needs to be 11:50 both for the cryptic instructions and the surface reading.
6d Station causeway (10)
EMBANKMENT: Double definition.
7d French eg Queen is idler (6)
LOAFER: Something of which French is an example (eg) followed by the two-letter abbreviation for the former queen.
8d Late-night flight with glowing viewpoint (3-3)
RED-EYE: A three-letter word meaning glowing and a three-letter word meaning viewpoint.
10d Ring after college boy to blush (7)
CRIMSON: A three-letter word meaning a ring or edge after the abbreviation for college, all followed by the three-letter word for a boy. Another repetition in the wordplay with after having been used in the same sense in 1a.
14d Plane on its side? (10)
HORIZONTAL: Double definition.
16d Opposition as everyone expresses hesitation on borders of Galway (7)
ALLERGY: A three-letter word meaning everyone followed by a two-letter word used when expressing hesitation and the outer letters (borders) of Galway.
18d Lady on Tabloid, unfinished article split (8)
DISUNITE: A two-letter’s lady’s name followed by a three-letter name of a tabloid newspaper and a four-letter word for an article with the last letter removed (unfinished).
19d ‘Endless torment’ Italian reportedly said, troubled (8)
AGONISED: A five-letter word for torment with the last letter removed (endless) followed by an I (Italian) and a homophone (reportedly) of said. Two points here. The abbreviation for Italian is It, not I. Also, the homophone does not work as the solution is pronounced with a zed sound.
22d Car? Yes, German – foremost limousine of particular year (6)
JALOPY: The German word for yes followed by the initial letters (foremost) of the final four words of the clue. Foremost on its own does not mean the first letter. It would need to be foremost of to work. Even then, some indication that it is the first letters of all four words would be required.
23d Butcher gaoled being ancient (3-3)
AGE-OLD: An anagram (butcher) of GAOLED.
25d Girl at the end of 2nd World War made device (5)
VALVE: A three-letter girls name followed by the two-letter abbreviation for the end of WW II. This clue does not work. The correct expression is VE day and this did not mark the end of the war, only the war in Europe. The link word does not work in the cryptic reading of the clue as you have wordplay made device. Making would be a better word to use.
27d Give up? Pointless! Say, replace Zulu with leading Thai (4)
QUIT: A four-letter word of what the TV program pointless is an example (say) with the abbreviation for Zulu replaced by the first letter (leading) of Thai.
We had to check our answer to 28a but the rest all came together with a bit of head-scratching. After we had finished we realised that we had a double pangram.
An enjoyable solving experience for us.
Thanks Fringilla.
There were some very nice surfaces in here and several clues are super. Quite a few – for me – fell into the ‘nearly there but not quite’ category. And there will be some on which I am sure Prolixic will have advice. 14a, 17a, 31a, 1d and 23d are my favourites and the double pangram (I haven’t counted but will trust 2Kiwis!) is an impressive construction.
Thanks Fringilla
My goodness, Fringilla, this was a real challenge, not helped by my first two answers in being very plausible but wrong. I put in “recall” for 1a and “sculptor” for 4a, and then, after I solved 7d, changed 4a to another wrong answer: “modeller”!
A double pangram is a magnificent achievement but I felt that overall this was a curate’s egg of a puzzle. I agree with PM @2, that a lot of the clues were “nearly but not quite there”. Some surfaces were smooth but some jarred, and I have a few comments from along the way:
10a – I can’t find any justification for I = Irish.
). It should be “VE Day” not “VE”, but even that isn’t right because VE Day is the date that Germany surrendered. WW II actually ended in September 1945.
13a – The BRB gives the required meaning of strait as “obsolete or rare”, so perhaps this needs an indicator to that effect?
15a – Love is “amour” not “amor”.
20a – I don’t think you can use “top” to indicate the first letters of the following words. Prolixic will confirm.
1d – I don’t much like “disgruntled” as an anagram indicator.
14d – I’m not entirely convinced that the answer can mean “on its side”.
22d – I don’t think you can use “foremost” to indicate the first letter of more than one word. Prolixic will confirm.
25d – Oh dear! You have started with one of my bugbears (the use of a vague name – which you have also done in 18d
I had a lot of ticks, and the clue I liked best was 23d.
Well done and thank you, Fringilla. Please ease up a bit on the difficulty level next time and pay heed to Prolixic’s comments. Thanks too in advance to Prolixic.
Well done, Fringilla – it’s impressive to produce a double pangram without a lot of obscurities (and without using an excessive number of anagrams).
As has been said above there are several clues on which Prolixic will give you helpful advice.
My favourite clue was 17a.
Welcome back, Fringilla.
My researches suggest that your last puzzle appeared in 2020, so it’s been quite a while since we’ve seen you. At that time I said that I winced at several of the surface readings and, 183 Rookie Corner puzzles later, I had the same experience unfortunately. I nearly fell off my chair when I read that PostMark was complimenting you on “very nice surfaces”. He must have been solving a different puzzle to me! RD has mentioned several of my other reservations, I could list additional ones.
Prolixic is notoriously lenient (unlike me) with surface readings in Rookie Corner puzzles, but since your first puzzle here appeared in 2015, I think even he would concede that there ought to be some improvement over the intervening nine years in the way your clues read. I’m sorry to be so negative, but I was immensely disappointed with this puzzle.
Thank you, Fringilla.
As one who appeared on this site within the last 12 months or so, and who has not encountered this setter before, I guess my first instinct is to be encouraging if I can. Apologies if you have suffered any bruises or contusions on my account 😉
As someone who cut his teeth in Rookie Corner, I can say with complete certainty that I received far more benefit from those who candidly pointed out errors and things that didn’t work. I hope Fringilla (and others) feel the same. Encouragement is fine, but I don’t think “sugar-coating the pill” helps a setter to progress. If the surfaces are poor, I believe it should be said, ignoring the elephant in the room does nobody any favours. Perhaps that approach is okay for “My Crossword”, but I think we try to be more analytical (and brutally honest) here.
You’re right, of course, silvanus. Criticism is invariably more helpful than praise. Brutal honesty is all. I did think “immensely” disappointed was perhaps a tad harsh, though – ouch! No doubt Fringilla will take it on the chin and come back invigorated. Feedback from a pro is worth its weight in (barbed) gold.
I was hoping that after such a long interval, your next puzzle would demonstrate great improvement, but sadly that failed to materialise. Apart from the need to check every clue for accuracy over and over again, you should get someone totally unbiased to give you an honest opinion on your surface reads, some of which are frankly dreadful. My advice would be to leave the pangram idea alone until you have properly mastered the basics. Sorry to be so negative, Fringilla and I did enjoy your 17a!
Being new to your puzzles, Fringilla, first of all thank you for the challenge and for achieving a double pangram without, as others have said, resorting to too many anagrams. I share some of the reservations already expressed, particularly there being too many quite bizarre and/or awkward surfaces, I for Irish, amor for amour, singular top for several tops, and VE Day was not the end of WW2. Also –
“ring after” appears in 1a & 10d;
in 19d I’m not certain the homophone of said works when the …sed of agonised does not use the same sound;
in 30a I rather doubt many editors would accept ‘bastard’ in the clue, even as an anagram indicator (but I did like the surface, nonetheless!);
5d – was there a typo in this clue? If 11 and 50 are apart or otherwise separated, then you might get XIL, but as the clue appears it doesn’t work: if you’re going to use Roman Numerals then 1150 would be MCL. It’s a neat idea, though.
6d – I felt the GK required here was somewhat parochial
Highlights for me were 4a, 26a, 14d, 22d & 27d.
Thank you again, and in advance also to Prolixic, who I know will offer you some wise words!
Thanks Fringilla. As Jane said, 17a is very good. I will be interested to see if Prolixic has anything to say about the use of question marks. In his guide, he says: “A question mark (?) usually indicates that there is a definition by example, that there is something slightly unusual about the clue or that there is a cryptic definition”. 27a has a question mark after the definition, but it isn’t a definition by example, and I don’t think there is anything unusual going on. But then again Prolixic (and Chris Lancaster in his book) appear to leave the door open for a question mark to be used to improve the surface read.
Presume you mean 27d. The question mark there is purely for the surface reading. Which is fine, because it makes sense in that context – “Give up? Pointless!” reads naturally enough thus far. After that, however… “Say, replace Zulu with leading Thai” conjures up a peculiar mental image and is a bit of a non sequitur from the first part.
Also not keen on “say” being disjointed by punctuation from the “Pointless” to which it belongs, and “leading Thai” doesn’t really say what it wants to say (likewise “top” in 20a and “foremost” in 22d), though it’s a construction you see often enough in published puzzles, so you can forgive rookie setters for following their bad example.
Actually, I meant 17a, which I thought worked well. I should have started the next sentence with ‘regarding 27d’ though. Thanks for confirming that it is permissible to use a question mark purely for the surface. I wasn’t sure that it is permissible because the question mark has three substantial purposes which solvers can’t rely on if the question mark can be decorative.
I’m not an authority on what is “permissible” – that is for editors to decide. But I would say that where the surface reads naturally as a question, it is appropriate to use a question mark.
I agree 17a is a nice clue. If I were being really picky, I would say that the hyphen is superfluous for the cryptic grammar and therefore just as “unfair” as any instance of a question mark that is there purely for the surface.
Yes, I did think about the hyphen too, but I recalled that it is generally regarded as acceptable to use punctuation to mislead (i.e. usually the solver should ignore punctuation and so in this case take the hyphen out). I just wasn’t sure if the question mark is an exception to that position, given it has commonly used substantive roles. I think I’m left to conclude that the only conventions universally applied regarding grammar are that clues do not end with full stops and proper nouns must be capitalised. Although, there is the overarching principle of being fair to the solver. So, occasionally the punctuation should be right.
Thanks to all. I obviously allowed the double pangram to take priority over a skillful contribution, unlike most of my recent productions.
Unfortunately, the visit from France and Canada of my ex wife, two daughters and five grandchildren precludes me from commenting individually. I shall not bother you again.
Wow, what a lot of guests! Enjoy your time with them.
But no need to “not bother” us — nobody here has said you’ve been a bother! You’ve agreed the double pangram (which several have pointed out, is an impressive construction) was a distraction, making this atypical of your puzzles. So there’s no reason to avoid sending Rookie Corner another crossword.
And personally (as somebody trying to learn more about writing cryptic clues), I find weeks with a higher commentometer more interesting than those with very little to comment on, because it means more wisdom shared by Prolixic for us all to learn from. Obviously I’m not saying you should aim for a high commentometer score, but it’s a useful side effect for the rest of us when there happens to be one.
Please don’t feel disheartened Fringilla (btw I notice you managed to get ‘finch’ into the crossword 😉). You know why this puzzle didn’t quite live up to expectations, and I think the disappointment expressed in the comments indicates that people believe you can create a great puzzle. I hope you enjoy your time with your guests and will have another go at some point.
I do hope Fringilla has time before long to absorb Prolixic’s advice and submit further grids as there were some good ideas and clueing in their crossword and I’d happily have a go at more of them.
Something that has had me puzzled for a while is the guidance about indicating leading letters. Bearing in mind the advice above (20a & 22d) it does seem that particularly in The Times there seems to be a more relaxed attitude. For example in yesterday’s Times puzzle we had “… primarily identified among” to give I and A and “… cocaine yearly to begin with” to give C & Y.
Does it depend on individual editorial guidelines?
Thank you to Prolixic for the advice above: I find it helps me as a solver, and certainly hope it assists budding setters.
I think the problem is with indicators that can only be singular. So “top of some more words” could only indicate the first letter of the first word, because ‘top’ is definitely singular; it would need to be “tops of some more words” to get the first letter of multiple words.
But with “some other words primarily” or “some other words to begin with”, the indicators aren’t specifically singular, so, while perhaps not as solver-friendly as an indicator that makes it clear that multiple words are involved, they aren’t grammatically wrong — writing “primarilies” or “to begins with” would be nonsense.
That makes a lot of sense, thank you Smylers
Many thanks for the review, Prolixic. I do hope that, once his visitors have departed, Fringilla will look again and be a little more appreciative of all your help and advice.
Thank you for the crossword, Fringilla, which kept us happily occupied on a thoroughly dreary afternoon away from home. Do, please, send in more when you have time again.