DT 28576 (Hints)

Daily Telegraph Cryptic No 28576 (Hints)

The Saturday Crossword Club
Hosted by Tilsit

+ – + – + – + – + – + – + – +

Morning all!  Busy day today with the Times Crossword Championships in London (Good luck to Crypticsue, Verlaine and any other bods from round here taking part)  Sadly I have to miss the event as I’m running a Grand Prix Quiz event on the Wirral at Hoylake and will have several Eggheads and Chasers taking part to try and uphold their quiz status.  There are a few of these around the country on the first Saturday of each month and if you ever fancy taking on the great and good of quizzing, let me know and I’ll point you in the right direction.

This is quite a tricky Saturday puzzle which I would guess is by our Mysteron.  I’ve tried to help with some of the trickier clues.  I’m hoping Gazza will be along with the pictures later as I can’t upload them for some reason.  I will be popping in and out during the day between quiz rounds and keeping an eye on things.  So you have to play really nicely today.

As is usual for the weekend prize crosswords, an assortment of clues, including some of the more difficult ones, have been selected and hints provided for them.

Most of the terms used in these hints are explained in the Glossary and examples are available by clicking on the entry under “See also”. Where the hint describes a construct as “usual” this means that more help can be found in The Usual Suspects, which gives a number of the elements commonly used in the wordplay. Another useful page is Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing, which features words with meanings that are not always immediately obvious.

A full review of this puzzle will be published after the closing date for submissions.

Some hints follow.

Across

1a        Declines credit for essential car accessory (8)
A word meaning declines as in the sense of rise and fall, plus a slang word for credit should give you this part of a car engine.

9a        Review smartphone program upgrade (8)
A word meaning to review as in your work performance is made up of something that works on your smartphone plus a word meaning to upgrade or lift.

11a      Celebration of moving conflict between two dynasties (5-7)
The general name for a dynasty and the particular name for a Chinese one have a word meaning conflict between them to give you something that happens after moving home.

16a      ‘House’ might split for this (4)
This I suspect is a cryptic definition.  Think of a split house.

17a      Survivor of Henry VIII stabbed by English blade (5)
The surname of a particular person associated with the King has E (for English) inside to give a type of knife.

21a      Drunk cuts meal, getting wine (8)
Drunk usually means an anagram indicator, and so it is here.  It will lead you to a type of wine.

23a      Complain about northern girl on stage — an angel? (12)
A name for a woman who may be seen as an angel for her actions.  A word meaning complain goes around N for northern and add the name of a lady on stage.

28a      Second display of grief is extensive (8)
The abbreviation for S, plus what you do when you are upset give a word meaning extensive

Down

2d        Friend early to catch a train initially (8)
A word for someone who is a friend is found by taking an expressing meaning early and inserting A and the first letter of train.

3d        Who’s disported at posh cities? (12)
A word for someone who may be said to be disported (go on look it up!) is an anagram of the remainder of the clue.  This is a sort of all in one clue with no anagram indicator as such.

8d        Raise crew in Orpington? (8)
inside what an Orpington is goes the name for a rowing crew and this gives you something that means raise.

16d      Like mule delivered after objections raised (8)

A word to describe a mule is found by taking a word for injections and reversing it and then adding something that means delivered (in the medical sense).

12d      Skill in shooting 1000 boats, with crew on another boat (12)
The name for the particular skill is found by solving the word sum.  1000 in Roman numerals + name for old boats + a word meaning to crew + another vessel.

24d      North American provided opposite of 3 (4)
The abbreviation for North American and a short word meaning provided (as in condition) gives a French word that is the opposite of 3 down.

25d      Counts slugs (4)
A double definition with the second relating to the shorts consumed at today’s gathering!

The Crossword Club is now open.


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As this is a Prize crossword, please don’t put any ANSWERS, whether WHOLE, PARTIAL or INCORRECT, or any ALTERNATIVE CLUES in your comment. If in doubt, leave it out!

Please read these instructions carefully – they are not subject to debate or discussion. Offending comments may be redacted or, in extreme cases, deleted. In all cases the administrator’s decision is final.


The Quick Crossword pun: board+Acol+lee=Border Collie


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104 Comments

  1. neveracrossword
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:06 am | Permalink | Reply

    Is the definition in 3d not the entire clue?

    • Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:15 am | Permalink | Reply

      Yes — as Tilsit said this is a semi-all-in-one, though I had disported as the anagram indicator.

      • neveracrossword
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:19 am | Permalink | Reply

        But only the first 2 words of the clue were underlined in the hint. I thought “disported” was the anagram indicator, too.

    • Jose
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:04 am | Permalink | Reply

      3d. Yes, I always have problems with these type of clues too. My goddaughter (24) will be asking me about this one and I’m going explain thus: It’s an all-in-one clue with some anagram fodder (the last 3 words) and a definition (the first 2 words) but no anagram indicator. Would I be about right?

      • Gazza
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:14 am | Permalink | Reply

        It’s a semi-all-in-one where the whole clue is the definition and disported is the anagram indicator.

        • Jose
          Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:52 am | Permalink | Reply

          Thank you, G. Yes, I can see now you’ve explained and I’ve weighed it up further. I guess the entire clue is the definition, but only part of the clue is wordplay. And the only part of the clue that isn’t part of the wordplay is “Who’s”. Because the rest of the clue is made up of the anagram indicator and anagram fodder. I think…

          • Gazza
            Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:55 am | Permalink | Reply

            That’s how I read it.

          • Jose
            Posted November 4, 2017 at 12:05 pm | Permalink | Reply

            For anyone else who gets confused (like me) with these semi-all-in-one clues, this explains it very well:

            A semi-&lit (semi all-in-one) clue is a variant of the &lit (all-in-one) clue type.

            In an &lit clue, the entire clue is the definition as well as the wordplay.
            In a semi-&lit clue, the entire clue is the definition but only a part of the clue is the wordplay.

            For example, a clue by Roger Squires:

            Slow-moving mice may get snapped up by them (4) OWLS (SLOW)*
            The entire clue “Slow-moving mice may get snapped up by them” defines OWLS, but only “Slow-moving” (i.e. anagram of SLOW) is the wordplay. So this clue is a semi-&lit.

            • Merusa
              Posted November 4, 2017 at 2:46 pm | Permalink | Reply

              Now I’m well and truly confused!

              • hoofityoudonkey
                Posted November 4, 2017 at 9:41 pm | Permalink | Reply

                Don’t worry, just solve the clues!! That’s what I do, I don’t understand all this technical stuff either!!

                • stanXYZ
                  Posted November 5, 2017 at 1:15 pm | Permalink | Reply

                  I thought that the Roger Squires’ clue was a reverse anagram … but what do I know!

            • Sam
              Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:33 pm | Permalink | Reply

              That’s my kind of clue. Very elegant.

  2. Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:06 am | Permalink | Reply

    I agree this was a little trickier than usual and I enjoyed it.

    The house is lurking in 16a.

    I won’t risk making further comment about the clues. Nobody’s putting me in the naughty corner today!

    See some of you later. The very best of luck to our friends taking part.

    Thanks to the setter and Tilsit.

    • stanXYZ
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 1:21 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Thanks, Kitty – 16a makes much more sense now.

      • Merusa
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 2:47 pm | Permalink | Reply

        That was the way I saw it too.

  3. Margaret
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:24 am | Permalink | Reply

    At first glance I thought I was going to have trouble with this one, but they steadily began to fall. I’d never heard of 21a, 24d or that particular Orpington, but the clueing was fair and so they were easily attainable.

    Thoroughly enjoyed it so thanks to the setter and to Tilsit for giving us his precious time today. Hope the day goes well.

    BTW should the word in the hint for 16d be ‘objections’ not ‘injections’?

  4. Rabbit Dave
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:42 am | Permalink | Reply

    3.5/4.5. I found this challenging and very enjoyable. I had a very slow start until I finally dropped onto the right wavelength after which it all fell into place quite steadily.

    11a was my favourite but also vying for positions on my podium were 8d, 19d & 25d.

    Many thanks to Mr Ron (with full marks for the great surfaces), and to Tilsit.

  5. Hathersage John
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:44 am | Permalink | Reply

    Thought this was great. Having struggled with Sodoku (sic) I thought I was in an intellectual low phase, but loved the first three quadrants of this. Got stuck on the SW corner, which took a bit of cracking and another cup of coffee. Particular favourites were 17a and 23a. It’s a 2/4 from me.

  6. Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:52 am | Permalink | Reply

    Couldn’t do 24d or 27a. Even with your helpful clue I still can’t get 24d! Made a mistake with the start of 12d but soon saw my error.
    Thanks to the setter for an enjoyable puzzle.

    • Brian
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:55 am | Permalink | Reply

      24d It’s an alternative spelling for someone who is xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

      • Senf
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:05 am | Permalink | Reply

        Brian – you are lucky that Cryptic Sue is otherwise occupied today, otherwise it would be the naughty corner for you.

        The deletion x’s above should be read as ‘the opposite of 3d.’

  7. Brian
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:53 am | Permalink | Reply

    Anyone got a hint for 27a? I have an answer but cannot parse the clue?
    Thx

    • Rabbit Dave
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:57 am | Permalink | Reply

      Brian, the definition for 27a is “design again” and the wordplay is a synonym of “check” followed by an “outlet”.

      • Brian
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:01 am | Permalink | Reply

        Now I see it, I had spelt 17d with an * instead of * which made it very tricky to get 27a. Thanks, much appreciated.

      • Ora Meringue
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:36 am | Permalink | Reply

        Thank you for the explanation.

  8. Helen Dale
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:54 am | Permalink | Reply

    Please could someone explain 27 across? I have an answer that doesn’t really make sense to me and I’m pretty certain of the down letters.

    • Gazza
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:09 am | Permalink | Reply

      You’ve expanded your alias so this needed moderation. Both aliases will now work.
      See Rabbit Dave’s response above for explanation of 27a.

  9. Graham
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:55 am | Permalink | Reply

    I found this a lot harder than recent Saturday puzzles but slowly but surely they fell into place. I didn’t help myself by putting the wrong vegetable in 5D but my mind was transfixed probably as a result of 5 pints of Wadworths 6x last night. Thanks to the setter & to Tilsit for his hints.

    • Senf
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:11 am | Permalink | Reply

      Hmm – I remember many years ago someone came up with the loony idea of indicating the quality/strength of beers with a scale of X – XXXXX – Wadworths asked how 6X would be categorised.

      • Badger
        Posted November 5, 2017 at 5:16 pm | Permalink | Reply

        I worked on modifications to Wadworth’s brewery during the period 1985-8
        when I had to make many visits -including their private bar, excellent beer too!
        Thanks to Tilsit for the hints -including the chicken- that was a new one on me…
        I had trouble with 24 down, had the first two letters repeated -which seemed OK until I saw the French hint. After that all fell in. Very satisfying.

  10. Young Salopian
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:58 am | Permalink | Reply

    8d, 11a and 19d on my podium. And the winner is…….. I cannot decide, all brilliant. This was certainly at the tricky end of the Mysteron’s spectrum, and for me was a solid 3* /4.5* overall. It was a real pleasure to solve, first to last.

    Thanks to Mr Ron for a great tussle, and to Tilsit.

  11. Senf
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 10:58 am | Permalink | Reply

    A Saturday ‘Toughie’ for me, makes me think it is a ‘Mister Ron.’ A significant amount of head scratching and some electronic assistance required – 2.5/3.

    Candidates for favourite – 23a, 6d, 16d, and 19d (which I think is a fairly recent repeat) – and the winner is 23a – a very good charade.

    Thanks to the setter and Tilsit.

    • One Across
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 12:22 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Good to know you’re human, and don’t mind occasional assistance. We thought you were cruciverbally omniscient…

      • Senf
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 1:31 pm | Permalink | Reply

        Definitely human and ready to own up to using assistance. I will never make it to the Times Championship. Today, even with the two checkers, I was totally stumped by 7d.

        • Merusa
          Posted November 4, 2017 at 2:58 pm | Permalink | Reply

          Those of us of a certain age would remember it well! Lovely musical. Hard to think that it was made in 1958, so long ago.

          • Senf
            Posted November 4, 2017 at 3:18 pm | Permalink | Reply

            Not me, even though I am ‘of a certain age’!

            • hoofityoudonkey
              Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:12 pm | Permalink | Reply

              Thank heaven for little girls

          • BusyLizzie
            Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:50 pm | Permalink | Reply

            Oh memorIes, I believe we saw this as a movie in the early 60s, or perhaps I am confusing it with Fanny? Lovely music.

  12. Brian
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:04 am | Permalink | Reply

    Found this on the tricky side (still don’t understand my answer to 13a (it has to be right but why no idea). I really loved 19d, just my sort of clue.
    Thx to all

    • Ora Meringue
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:38 am | Permalink | Reply

      I do not understand my answer to 13a either…..but I’m pretty sure it is the same as yours.
      Perhaps someone will put us out of our misery.

      • Gazza
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:44 am | Permalink | Reply

        13a Trunk carries tyres primarily – certainly makes contribution to road safety (4-4)
        Another word for a trunk or chest contains the first letter of ‘tyres’. After that we need a response meaning certainly.

        • One Across
          Posted November 4, 2017 at 12:11 pm | Permalink | Reply

          I resisted replying to Ora, because of the Red Rules. Do these only apply to some bloggers? Or perhaps if more than one blogger is in distress, help is at hand.

          • tilsit
            Posted November 4, 2017 at 12:16 pm | Permalink | Reply

            Resists temptation…..

            And breathe….

            This was my favourite clue and brings back memories like this

            If you are at a loose end for a puzzle, and the NTSPP and Prize puzzles are done, go and find today’s Financial Times Crossword by the wonderful Rosa Klebb – seriously laugh-aloud stuff.

            http://prod-upp-image-read.ft.com/2a330258-bae5-11e7-9bfb-4a9c83ffa852

            Now play nicely.

            • One Across
              Posted November 4, 2017 at 1:00 pm | Permalink | Reply

              Great link. Working on this now.
              I see if you google “ft crossword”, first hit is the index page, with all the Recent FT cryptics, and the polymaths.

          • Gazza
            Posted November 4, 2017 at 12:17 pm | Permalink | Reply

            By all means provide a hint if someone asks, but keep to the red rules.

            • One Across
              Posted November 4, 2017 at 1:08 pm | Permalink | Reply

              Thanks Gazza. I had thought a hint is, or contains, a ‘partial answer’, and hence was precluded. For instance, the first letter of tyres can only be “t”, and that’s part of the answer. Just want to avoid the naughty corner…

              • Posted November 6, 2017 at 1:11 am | Permalink | Reply

                If it’s in the clue, it’s fair game. The rule about partial answers is there mainly to stop the posting of idiotic comments like “I’ve got A?B?C?D – is this correct?”. If it’s right, it is giving away letters in other answers, if wrong it can create confusion.

    • Jose
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 12:35 pm | Permalink | Reply

      13a. I was going to reply to Brian with this, but I decided not to at the last minute because I didn’t think that, with a Prize crossword, any Tom, Dick or Harry was allowed to:

      A synonym for trunk containing the initial letter of tyres, followed by a synonym of “certainly”.

    • BusyLizzie
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:51 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Same here, sure it was right but couldn’t figure out why so bunged it in.

  13. Avatar
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:05 am | Permalink | Reply

    This was hard going. Still don’t have a satisfactory answer for 17d. 19d was great. The ‘meaning’ element of 22a was more confusing than helpful!

    • Young Salopian
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:48 am | Permalink | Reply

      17d is a double definition.

    • One Across
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:54 am | Permalink | Reply

      Big Dave’s Red Rules preclude an explanation here, but think heteronymic homographs, that could even be homophonic depending on where you originate. Quite a good clue. I think you mean 23a, where the’meaning’ occurs quite often on the back page.
      3 ½ */ 3 ½ *

  14. Aljanon
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:40 am | Permalink | Reply

    Reading the previous comments has been really comforting because I thought that I was being especially dim this morning and, at my age, that’s worrying! However, I’ve soldiered on and I particularly liked 8d because there was a loud clang as the penny dropped…

  15. Ora Meringue
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:40 am | Permalink | Reply

    Needed a lot of electronic help with this one, so not very pleased with myself.

    Many thanks to Tilsit for the much needed hints and to the setter.

  16. PLR
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 11:40 am | Permalink | Reply

    This took a while but got there in the end. I belong to the camp that took disported in 3d as the anagram indicator. Thanks Tilsit/ Gaza for illustrating what an Orpington is. My favourite clue is 11a.

  17. JonP
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 12:20 pm | Permalink | Reply

    I thought I was going to have problems with this one as I seemed to be confined to the RHS for quite a while before getting a few on the LHS. After that it all fell into place without too much trouble and most enjoyable it was to boot.

    Thanks to Tilsit and setter **/****

  18. Michael
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 12:39 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Very enjoyable, there were no real problems – I looked up ‘Orpington’ in the BRB and I learnt something new and the answer then made sense.

    Off to the Olympic Stadium later for West Ham v Liverpool – I must be a masochist – the Natives (including me!) are becoming restless, there could be tears before bedtime!

  19. tilsit
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 12:51 pm | Permalink | Reply

    There is news from London and one of our gang has done particularly well!

    Bravo Crypticsue!

    Here at my quiz, the geniuses are wrestling with such questions as

    Which US city is sometimes referred to as Gotham?
    John de Witt was head of the Government of the province of Holland from 1625-1672. Used for centuries, what title did he hold when serving in that capacity?
    Which contemporary actress said: ‘The man for me is the cherry on the pie. But I’m the pie and my pie is good all by itself. Even if I don’t have a cherry’
    What is the name of Bob the Builder’s female business partner?
    Already understood to be able to count to four, which social insects have been shown to have an undertsanding of the concept of zero?
    In 1979, which player became Real Madrid’s first English signing?

    • Merusa
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 3:07 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Blimey, I batted ZERO on your quiz. Those people must have ginormous (learned recently in a crossword that is a real word) general knowledge stored away.

      Yay for Crypticsue, but we all know she’s a brain!

    • BusyLizzie
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:55 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Well you stumped us here too…😕

    • hoofityoudonkey
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 9:46 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Won’t be doing any quizzes you set, Tilsit!!

  20. John Bee
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 1:14 pm | Permalink | Reply

    I think 16a is a lurker rather than a cryptic.

    • John Bee
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 1:20 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Sorry Kitty I just noticed you already pointed this out.

  21. Reidy53
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 1:36 pm | Permalink | Reply

    16A – wrong reasoning, concentrate on split

    • Gazza
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:27 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Welcome to the blog, Reidy53.

  22. John Bee
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 1:41 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Enjoyed that and I don’t think the theory that the Saturday puzzles are getting easier as I found that quite tricky. 1a and 2d last in as I had the wrong start to 1a. 8d favourite by a nose from 12d.
    Thanks to tilsit gazza and the setter.

  23. Mr Kitty
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 3:08 pm | Permalink | Reply

    An enjoyable challenge that was definitely on the tricky side. I’d thought that the setter intended the “essential” in 1a to be part of the definition, but I’m happy to see it here orphaned rather than underlined because my car doesn’t have one – it insists on taking care of things itself. I had grumbles about both the definition and the wordplay in 19d which I’ll have to save for a comment on the full review. I did like 13a, 8d, and 17d. Thanks to setter and tilsit.

  24. Sarah
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 3:15 pm | Permalink | Reply

    I liked this but had problems because I had the wrong vegetable in mind for 5d. Silly me. Loved the little grey cells work out though. Thanks to all

  25. Merusa
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 3:25 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Well, wotta treat! It took me ages to get going, then I clicked on the setter’s wavelength and was away. I even know the wine, though I’m not aware of having tried it.
    I needed gizmo for help with 27a, don’t know why, it seems so obvious.
    I can’t choose a fave amongst this treasure trove, let’s just say “all”.
    Thanks to Saturday setter, loved it, and to Tilsit et al who contributed to this.

  26. Graham Wall
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 3:34 pm | Permalink | Reply

    It has been a few weeks since I have been well enough to tackle the crossword. I had a bit of an attempt yesterday but whole heartedly went for it today and have completed it and am feeling very content. On the whole I think it was not too difficult once I got into the setters mindset. My rating are 2 for difficulty and a 4 for enjoyment. I nominate 11A as the best clue. My thanks to Tilsit for his efforts.

    • Merusa
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 4:33 pm | Permalink | Reply

      I do hope you are better now and stay that way!

      • Graham Wall
        Posted November 5, 2017 at 2:17 pm | Permalink | Reply

        Thank you Medusa, only just seen your comment.

  27. Hector Pascal
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 3:35 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Hmmm, must be feeling spry today. I rated this at 2.25/3.5. Took a Starbucks biggest coffee though and it was cold at the end. Best clue was 11a. Clocks go back on the Eastern Seaboard this evening so that’s two extra hours in bed this year. Now that’s a bonus.
    Thanks to setter and Tilsit.

  28. Pedant
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 4:03 pm | Permalink | Reply

    All in except 19d which I just can’t fathom. Maybe for same reson as Mr Kitty (above)?
    Any help much appreciated.
    Many thanks to the Setter and Tisit.

    • Mr Kitty
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 4:49 pm | Permalink | Reply

      The “definition” in 19d is one taking charge. The wordplay is a charade of “vote for” and a particular Reagan.

  29. Sue Thomas
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 4:24 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Did you mean ‘objections’ in your clue for 16D?

  30. Heno
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 4:25 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Thanks to the setter and to Tilsit for the hints. A very enjoyable puzzle, with some tricky clues. 8d made me laugh because of my alias, but my favourite was 19d. I was beaten by 7d, I could only think of an opera, but Googled 1958 musicals after reading the comments, and then realised how the clue works. Was 3 ✳ /3 ✳ for me.

    • Merusa
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 4:37 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Oh dear, I am going to be in trouble. I never thought I’d be adding a hint by giving the year. Oh, well, I guess I’ll live through it.

  31. Kath
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 5:48 pm | Permalink | Reply

    What a very good crossword – certainly a bit tricky in places, well, it was for me anyway and I took ages to get going.
    7d caused trouble and although I got the answer to 16a, if only because it couldn’t have been much else, I missed the lurker.
    Spoilt for choice for particularly good clues today so, at random, 11 and 17a and 5 and 25d (both those two made me laugh).
    I also liked 19d and imagine that the objections above are something to do with physics which no-one would expect me to understand.
    Thanks to whoever set this one and to Tilsit for the hints and Gazza for the pics.
    Back to the general chaos – Elder Lamb’s birthday tomorrow so we have a houseful.
    I’m amazed that no-one has mentioned the lovely Quickie pun! :smile:

  32. Una
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:20 pm | Permalink | Reply

    I am completely stuck on my last 7d , I have the second and last letters.

    • Gazza
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:34 pm | Permalink | Reply

      7d Performance of rock band on one old musical (4)
      A word for a live performance by a rock band or group followed by the Roman numeral for one.

      • Una
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:51 pm | Permalink | Reply

        Thank heavens for little girls and Gazza and Merusa !

    • Merusa
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:36 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Have a gander at Hoofit’s response at comment 11 – please don’t kick yourself!

      • Una
        Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:52 pm | Permalink | Reply

        It was your hint that got me there, thanks.

  33. Willgetthereoneday
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:41 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Whoopee! We nearly finished this one today. Only 17down has defeated us. Even more delighted as it has been described as’ ‘tricky’. There is hope for me yet😀

  34. Gwizz
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:53 pm | Permalink | Reply

    So I completed this I thought and duly despatched my entry and then realized I had put the wrong wine in! D’oh!
    Ah well, next week then….
    Quite tricky for a Prize crossword but a good challenge. 19d was my favourite. 2,5/3.5* overall.
    Thanks to Mysteron and to Tilsit for the hints.

  35. BusyLizzie
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 6:59 pm | Permalink | Reply

    I for one found this trickier than most Saturday offerings. Didn’t get the satisfaction of completing even with Tilsit’s hints. Feeling a bit dim, ergo like a 1a 🙂

    • Una
      Posted November 4, 2017 at 7:25 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Gosh BusyLizzie ,don’t run yourself down , we all have our off days , and it was quite tricky.

  36. Jon_S
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 7:50 pm | Permalink | Reply

    I found much of this straightforward enough, but came badly unstuck at the close on 23ac and 25d. So from a ** to a *** overall.

  37. Salty Dog
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 8:30 pm | Permalink | Reply

    A smashing puzzle, but l don’t really see why anyone would have found it particularly difficult. I score it 1/4.5, and put little marginal ticks against lots of clues. 8d, 23a, 19d and 11a seemed to me the ones deserving special mention. Many thanks to the setter, and to Tilsit for the hints.

    • hoofityoudonkey
      Posted November 5, 2017 at 8:49 am | Permalink | Reply

      Easy for you, maybe, not always so easy for others?

    • LetterboxRoy
      Posted November 5, 2017 at 4:23 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Those new to solving – that may be one reason for others having the odd spot of bother. Not everyone who contributes here has been solving these for years – give ’em a chance!

      It didn’t give me too much trouble, either, but I can see why some of the craftier clues were queried.

  38. hoofityoudonkey
    Posted November 4, 2017 at 9:56 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Very enjoyable, and I did not find it as tough as some, which is unusual.
    I had a big ‘doh’ moment over 8d, as I constantly forget the ‘crew’, though Orpington did not defeat me as I had fallen into his trap before.
    I spelt the name of the wine wrong. I bunged it in without checking the anagram letters, though oddly, it did not affect the rest of the crossword.
    Thanks Tilsit and Mr.Ron.

    • Weekendwanda
      Posted November 5, 2017 at 8:41 am | Permalink | Reply

      The other wine would be more familiar to most for reasons upon which I will not elaborate as do not wish to fall foul of the rules

  39. Weekendwanda
    Posted November 5, 2017 at 9:05 am | Permalink | Reply

    The fun of coming late to the party is reading all of your comments. Some differences of opinion but most shared the same favourites. Looked at it last night and most of it a completely mystery. My first in was 8d which comes from a childhood in the country. My last two, oddly were in NW. I thought I had answer for 4d but happily did not write in as last letter wrong. On this occasion too much legal knowledge was a disadvantage as splitting into two words a different preposition would be used. Eventually penny dropped on 13a after which 4 d made sense (sort of). Favourites 1 11 and 23a and 8 16 17 19 and 22d. Many thanks to Misteron if it be you and admiration for Tilsit who managed the hints whilst officiating at an impossible (for me) quiz. On the strength of the sample questions I shall not be pitting my wits against the Eggheads or Chasers!

    • Angiebaby
      Posted November 5, 2017 at 9:53 am | Permalink | Reply

      I so agree about cominglate to the party. I rarely get to finish a crossword the same day it’s published. This one I didn’t even get to start until this morning. Rather pleased with myself that I finished it after reading the comments above. Favourite would have to be 17d.

  40. Helen
    Posted November 5, 2017 at 4:21 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Like Hoofit, I put in the wrong wine without checking the anagram letters, though I am partial to some of that as well! I found this quite difficult to get into, and still struggled with some of Tilsit’s clues, but after two or three trips to the thesaurus I did manage to get going and thanks to Tilsit and the Thesaurus, it is now complete, although my lunchtime solving lasted a couple of hours. Favourites were 11 & 26a, and 12 & 19d. Like most others though, I found it easier than Tilsit’s quiz questions.

  41. Terryfromslough
    Posted November 5, 2017 at 6:56 pm | Permalink | Reply

    Mr Kitty, as it was your favourite clue, for me & Willgetthereoneday, can you help us with 17d? I have all the odd letters & having read thru Chambers list, still can’t get it. Otherwise thought I did well on this as also wondering if age taking it’s toll in recent puzzles !!!

    • Mr Kitty
      Posted November 5, 2017 at 7:14 pm | Permalink | Reply

      Sure, Terry. 17d is a double definition: Came earlier and took prey (8). Does that help?

      • Weekendwanda
        Posted November 5, 2017 at 8:03 pm | Permalink | Reply

        Same spelling but different pronunciation (for me anyway)

        • Mr Kitty
          Posted November 5, 2017 at 8:16 pm | Permalink | Reply

          Different for me too, although the pronunciation examples in my ODE suggest otherwise.

          • Posted November 5, 2017 at 11:21 pm | Permalink | Reply

            You are right about the ODE, but my online New Oxford American Dictionary (NOAD) and SOED both have a long vowel for the first syllable of the first meaning and a short vowel for the other meaning.

            • Mr Kitty
              Posted November 6, 2017 at 12:44 am | Permalink | Reply

              That’s a relief. Looks like I need to acquire more dictionaries… :)

  42. Jose
    Posted November 6, 2017 at 10:46 am | Permalink | Reply

    I thought this one was significantly better than the usual Saturday Prize. A reasonable challenge and most enjoyable. 3* / 4*.

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