Sunday Toughie No 120
by Zandio
Hints and Tips by Sloop John Bee
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Zandio has brought us a Sunday Toughie that I found a little bit easier than his backpager last Friday, but then I was pressed for time and didn’t really concentrate on what I was doing so your experience with this may differ
I found quite a lot of political references in today’s puzzle but not sure if there are enough to call a theme. Especially as my slightly political place in Parliament in 19a appears to actually be a mining deposit (see comment #1 below). Ho-Hum no doubt the first of many mistakes I will make without the 100% assurance from the old site
We have an evenly balanced 14a and 14d clues today and I have hinted just under half, allowing me a bit of leeway with a bonus hint if required
Here we go…
As it is a Prize puzzle I can only hint at a few and hope that will give you the checkers and inspiration to go further. I’ll be back just after the closing date with the full blog. Don’t forget to follow BD’s instructions in RED at the bottom of the hints!
I hope I don’t have to redact any comments but I am new at this and don’t want to rock the boat. If in doubt, I’ll rub it out! – I think that sentence is a bit redundant. You have all been so helpful in sorting out prior parsing failures, and I am sure I will need similar help again, especially now that the “New Website” no longer confirms if I have got them all right.
Most of the terms used in these hints are explained in the Glossary and examples are available by clicking on the entry under “See also” Where the hint describes a construct as “usual” this means that more help can be found in The Usual Suspects, which gives a number of the elements commonly used in the wordplay. Another useful page is Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing, which features words with meanings that are not always immediately obvious. Don’t forget the Mine of useful information that Big Dave and his son Richard so meticulously prepared for us.
A full review of this puzzle will be published after the closing date for submissions. Some hints follow: Remember the site rules and play nicely.
Across
1a Annie Oakley‘s heavenly body? (8,4)
A nice double-definition to begin with
9a Heath, perhaps, where precipitation is checked as directed (7)
The shortened forename of both a band-leader and former prime minister goes around some precipitation. as directed as Annie Oakley did with her bullets
11a Ridicule the French politician with nothing on (7)
One of the French definite articles, a politician, the letter that looks like nothing and on from the clue ridicule the politicians who deserve it the most
21a Trapped by beast from the East, died after minute – or 1,440 of them? (7)
How are you at dividing by 60? A species of ox found in Tibet is reversed (from the East) around the genealogical died, goes after a Scots synonym of small
23a Top minister retiring before linking up with company offering present (7)
Somewhat confusing but I think we have a reversal of the most senior member of government and a poetic synonym of before after an abbreviated company. Offering appears to be misdirecting us towards present as a gift rather than present as the host we need (thanks Colin and Gazza)
24a Roll back stand before mass ceremony in church (7)
More confusion. Reverse to stand as a politician (and therefore be allowed to take to the benches in Parliament) or a reversal of Edinburgh’s relationship to the Forth, goes after a large flat, elliptical breakfast roll, and abbreviated mass (Thanks Gazza)
26a Tragic cases that could become haters? (6,6)
A reverse anagram where the anagram indicator is in the solution and haters could become the second part of the solution
One for Huntsman…
Down
2d Speaking in Parliament, for instance could be a Lab, a Lib-Dem, an SNP …? (7)
A manner of speaking. A conditional for instance, a from the clue and another group of speakers in Parliament
5d One’s taken in hand for going round getting tight (7)
Something you take in hand, it goes round and things get tight
10d Say Trump’s winning Yale? Maybe 2024’s a great time (7,5)
An informal name for Mr Trump and his apostrophe ‘s contains (winning) the device to open a Yale followed by 2024’s as an example of the time period, one of a great many
15d Before bed, keeping son with energy in order (9)
What the doctor may order. A synonym of before, a genealogical son and his bed when an infant, go before an abbreviation of energy
18d Underworld boss in the Marshalsea? (3,4)
Students of Dickens or Southwark history will know what Marshalsea was, formally a debtors prison, synonyms of formally and prison define an informal boss of the Underworld
22d Yours truly’s smuggled in foreign currency – which country? (5)
How yours truly addresses himself in the currency of a foreign country gives us another country
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A perfect story song…
That’s All Folks…
That was a bit of a struggle needing all the hints as well as e-help. Off to a racing start in the NW corner but quickly came to a grinding halt.
Checked my answers with Danword and it comes up with an alternative to my solution to 19a. Not sure whether I agree or not.
Favourite 7d for cleverness.
Thanks to Zandio for the challenge and SJB for the invaluable hints.
Being curious, I just checked with Danword as well, certainly not the answer I wrote in!
Oh I see what it might be, if Danword has spoken and operates as Smylers suggested that is another chance at The Mythical up in smoke! I prefer it that tons clues T rather than M It turns it from the slightly political deposit to gain a “position” in Parliament to a rather trickier mining reference – ho-hum!
According to Chambers t does abbreviate to tons but as m abbreviates to mass or millions maybe Danword’s data mining has got it right and condemned me to a failure today
I thought that Zandio was being being more than usually gentle with us today. Thanks to him and SJB.
For my podium I’ve selected 1a, 2d and 5d.
Like our reviewer, I found this slightly easier than Zandio’s Friday back-pager – although there were still a couple of clues that put up a fight. Fortunately, we got a hint for both of them!
My favourite was 11a which put me in mind of The Emperor’s New Clothes and 26a raised a smile.
Thanks to Zandio and to SJB for the hints.
Hello, compiler here. Thanks very much for taking the time to solve, analyse and discuss. Much appreciated. Have a good week.
Please can you adjudicate over the t/m situation in 19a.
Hi Jane. ‘Tons’ = M (mass or millions) would be a secondary abbreviation, which we don’t allow except in a very few instances. The main exception is ‘student’ = L, although Brian Greer (who used to set the Sunday Telegraph Cryptic and was crossword editor of two newspapers) would never use that. I think it’s justifiable because an L-plate is a commonplace sight. We accept ‘business’ = ‘co’, but that’s a common part of English. I can’t think of others right now. So we wouldn’t accept ‘tons’ = M. All the best.
That is reassuring, I will report back in the review as to how my answer has been marked
Many thanks, I’m far more comfortable with that. Also, it’s nice to have it confirmed that Danword isn’t infallible!
Thanks Zandio. Interesting as always and as SJB says, reassuring. Also interesting that Danword has the wrong answer. Perhaps it isn’t a data miner after all.
Another exception is ‘drug’ = E. When Chris Lancaster sorted out the Telegraph abbreviations list he banned ‘drug’ = E, but nowadays he allows it, which I think is right. E for Ecstasy and L for Learner have become words in their own right (‘He took an E’, ‘He’s an L driver’) so it seems fair enough to use a synonym.
I don’t often attempt the Toughie but Zandio prompted us to earlier this week with his cryptic so I gave it a go. I’m so glad I did. Lots to like with favourites being 9a, 26a, 7d and 19d.
Thanks to Zandio and SJB.
Family have gone home and the BBQ has been stowed away, so time to relax with another glass of wine and enjoy an excellent crossword in the evening sunshine. I did think of SJB settling down in the period just after midnight when I read 7d, but I don’t think this particular puzzle would have required a treble! 7d does make it onto my double-sized podium, along with 11a, 25a, 15d, 17d and 20d – great surfaces all round. I’ve never come across it, but if ‘Danword’ thought the answer to 19a was something to do with mining (possibly mislead by Zandio’s artful clue construction) then I may not have missed much. If ever I need a helping hand I’ll stick with SJB’s excellent hints and the comments on this blog :good:
Many thanks to Zandio and to SJB.
Thanks for the thanks,I certainly needed the treble last Sunday but a “Wee” nip was all that was required last night, I have cracked open a nice bottle of Bourgogne Côtes Salines now
Late to this & solved while watching Rory’s rather majestic triumph at Quail Hollow. I too thought it a wee bit easier than Friday but there were still a few head scratchers for me in the SW & I struggled with the definition at 23a. I also pondered T or M at 19a & picked the right one though without much conviction. Am ashamed to admit I’d also forgotten what Marshalsea was & it only dawned on me as I was about to ask Mr G.
Thanks to Zandio for a thoroughly enjoyable puzzle & to John for the review & music choices
You almost got Colin Blunstone or Jimmy Ruffin there! But Joan’s version is much better IMO I envy your trip to see her in July
A third choice might have been Bruce Springsteen s cover from Only the Strong Survive, but I spared you that until after I go see him in Sunderland next week 😃
11a and 10d are my potential favourites so far — but then those are 2 of only 3 clues I’ve managed to solve unaided. I’m very much not finding this easier than Friday’s backpager, which I managed to complete without hints and in less time than I’ve already spent on today’s (well, now yesterday’s)!
I also have 22d and possibly the last 3 letters of each of 12a and 21a, and I’ve clocked a couple which are anagrams but have given up on until I have some crossing letters, but that’s it. So for me Zandio definitely labelled these puzzles the right way round! Thank you to Sloop for the hints, which I shall now avail myself of.
A cracking lurker at 16a is a good way to get going
Thanks — got them all, now! 16a is indeed fantastic, and 23rd Oct also happens to be our wedding anniversary. That now goes on my list of top clues, along with 14a’s capital success, 2d’s speaking in parliament, and 7d’s treble whiskey.
The other thing that really helped was realizing I was mis-abbreviating Heath’s first name (well, Heaths’ first names, I suppose)! Correcting that suddenly helped with a bunch of down answers in the top-right.
I hadn’t heard of Annie Oakley, the 19d boiler, or Marshalsea and it turns out I wasn’t aware of what the answer to 18d meant either. Also, I didn’t know the roll in your 24a had to be elliptical or was particularly associated with breakfast — I thought it was another word for what I’d call a tea cake. I still don’t understand the ‘stand’ in that clue either, but can wait till Wednesday week for an unrestricted explanation.
A wonderful puzzle, which I’m glad I did attempt.
On 19 across, I’m pretty sure danword *is* a data miner, as is wordplay.com which also has the similar ‘wrong’ answer using ‘m’.
Is it possible the original DT data file is the source of the error? In which case many correct answers in the interactive version will be marked as an error. I guess the puzzles team might be able to correct things if that’s the case.
You could be right – I will try and remember to check the published result before the review. If that is the case Zandio’s comment about secondary abbreviations should mean the DT will accept both answers
Rather late to this, but I have to take issue with the answer to 10d, which I think I’ve done in the past. The animal’s long **** rhyme with *****, ie rhyming slang. In fact in my experience in east London they only ever use the first word!
But never mind, eh.
In Yorkshire they tend to refer to a long period of time with the phrase “As old as God’s dog” presumably referring to the pet God had as a child!
My Northumbrian Grandad used to say
“Since Adam’s @r$e was the size of a shart button” to mean a similarly long time
Did you hear of kettle meaning watch [as in timepiece] ?
Only in the watched kettle never boils saying
Kettle and hob = fob [watch]. Obviously dated, but still in use today to mean watch!
Fairly steady solve. Last one in 10 down – easy when you see it