DT 30609

71 comments on “DT 30609”

1. 15a was my last in too.
   I didn’t understand it initially, however I am assuming that ‘can’ here is a verb.

   Thanks ti RayT and to Shabbo

   1. That’s how I read it.

      1. I haven’t read the hints yet but I’ve still got 15 left too. I’ll give it a while more.

         1. I had the same answer as Shabbo for 15a and I ‘m still puzzling over the corrected solution for 15a. It didn’t work for me. However I liked the 1a anagram , the 27a anagran and the two lurkers at 18a and 21a. Thanks to Shabbo for rhe hints and to Ray T.

            1. Me too re 15A. After looking at it for some time I realised it meant that watering can achieve 15a!

   2. Take away the comms and it makes sense!

      1. Thank you!

   3. And yet, at the same time, it is crystal clear, because watering can, and indeed usually does. It had me fooled too, but surely that’s the point.

   4. Agree. My first thought was what do I hope to achieve when watering my garden, and voila the answer.

2. Another corker today. Totally agree that this was trickier than Captain Brevity’s usual offering, but about right for a Thursday. 3d was the last in and that required a dictionary check as I wasn’t aware of the agricultural (and original?) meaning of that word. I’d already put 15a in without understanding it fully, and still don’t really like it assuming Jezza has the parsing right. ***/****

   1. Actually, now I’ve looked at it again, 15a is rather clever.

   2. Some friends organise teams from their village to collect the 3Ds from the surrounding fields every year – with the permission of the farmers, of course. They collect many sacks of produce that would otherwise go to waste, a little of which they keep for themselves but the bulk going to local food banks.

      1. That’s wonderful. Kudos to your friends.

3. Polished, concise, good surfaces, all entirely fair, humour and wit throughout, all the usual tells. It’s a RayT. What else can one say? Special mentions to 7d, 14d & 21a with COTD for me 16d. Smiled happily at batsman being used rather than the ghastly ‘bat’ or ‘batter’.

   2* / 4*

   Many thanks indeed, MrT, and thanks too to Shabbo.

4. Sloop John Bee
   It is funny how anagrams come to me, 28a went in at a glance but 1a needed all the checkers
   I don’t know what I would underline as the definition in 3d but probably all of it
   5d amused me today
   I had the same dilemma as to drainage re 15a but impressive brevity as per, from RayT
   Thanks to Shabbo

   1. Dad used to say I am going to water the daisies when visiting the “can” maybe that has something to do with it

      1. My fellow officers in the RAF, especially the more senior of them, would announce it in more graphic terms. 😏

      2. My dad (a church organist) used to say that he was going to be a light …. Those familiar with evensong may understand!

5. I got on better with this than others over recent weeks so maybe the grey cells are waking up. Like others, 15a took a while but taking “can” as a verb gives it sense. Recklessly entering “carbuncle” in 9a messed up Cumbria for a while. I really must not jump to conclusions and look at anagrams closer. I know nothing of course but I thought 18d would have been better with a question mark?
   My COTD is the aforementioned 15a.
   Thank you, Ray T for the guzzle and restoring my faith in the ability to solve. Thank you, Shabbo for the hints.
   I thought the lurkers were very well hidden.
   Fabulous weather here in The Marches so the grass is being mown, runners beans have been planted and the herb bed is being weeded. All with regular breaks for cold drinks and fresh applications of Factor 50.

   1. This was much better than recent weeks Steve.

6. Trickiest in quite some time for me. I needed considerable help.

   As Steve Cowling says – thanks to the setter for the challenge.

   Thanks to RayTee and Shabba-dabba-doo

   You’ve been reading my diary; You have taken my heart away; Now you know me inside-out; You know my secrets…

7. Mr Consistency does it again.

   A very enjoyable challenge with 25a eluding me.

   What a great word bargee is! One to add to my list as well as ‘stays’. I suppose one in Buenos Aires is called an Argie Bargee.

   If you add the word ‘ship’ to 28a, you get a word with a triple letter which is as rare as hen’s teeth.

   I’m guessing that having a 1d, 2d, 3d, 4d, 5d, 6d, 7d & 8d is the most you can have in a row?

   My podium is 1a, 23a and 16d.

   Many thanks to Arty and Shabbingtons.

   2*/4*

   1. No wonder 25a eluded me.

      1. Always tough to solve a non-existent clue, so I wouldn’t feel too bad about it. I thought 41d was also very hard. :P

         1. 😊😂☺️

         2. Good shout, you trainspotter, you.

            Interesting that you chose 41 as your random number….or is it?

            Any significance?

            1. As the master of brevity, RayT probably considers 41 the answer to life, the universe everything
               Maybe a whole crossword in 41 words

               1. Like it, Sloops. Like it.

               2. Well he misses it by one.
                  The answer is 42. 😌

8. Like others I found this a tad trickier than usual for a Ray T but still enjoyable.
   15a gave me most pause but Lurker’s suggestion of removing the comma made it make sense to me.
   Top picks were 27a, 14d and 24d.
   Thanks to Shabbo and Ray T.

9. What an art to say so much in so few words! Another small masterpiece from the master of brevity.
   Rosettes galore with my top three being 15a plus 3&16d.
   Devotions naturally to Mr T and thanks to Shabbo for the review.

10. What a funny one! Took longer than usual without being over hard, just great fun!
    As a resident of Frogland I think we are over/under Channel (or sleeve/Manche) rather than 21a.
    For some unknown reason (too much visiting bars) took a while to eliminate the second ‘o’ I had for 13a!
    Other than those liked both 14 & 18d, and will linger with 14d for fave du jour!
    Many thanks to RayT and to Shabbo.

11. Ray T trickier than he has been recently but not as tricky as he can be – ***/****

    Candidates for favourite – 12a, 13a, 26a, 14d, and 22d – and the winner is 14d.

    I have a vague, perhaps incorrect, recollection of challenges to the correspondence between the 27a definition and answer.

    Thanks to Mr T and Shabbo.

12. So far off wavelength for whatever reason it was embarrassing. Completion took longer than the previous three back-pagers combined. Add me to those befuddled with the 15a why. 3&8d my top two.
    Thanks to Ray T & to Shabbo

13. That all went together nicely with 15a being last one in as most seemed to agree, I was thinking moisten, moisture, moistens. Nicely led astray there. I liked the French lovers and the French hairdresser. Favourite 1d. Gorge has taken two old pals up to the pub – weekly Lads Lunch. They both have dementia and George cannnot easily hear what they are saying so it must be jolly! Yeay – no cooking tonight. Many thanks to Raytee & Shabbo.

14. Another excellent puzzle from our virtuoso of concision. Great clues, a decent challenge and a very enjoyable solve. Favourite: 15a. 3*/4.*.

15. Mr T as entertaining as always – thanks to him and to Shabbo.
    My ticks today were awarded to 15a, 19a, 26a and 3d.

16. A tricky SW corner to finish with , took a while to spot the lurkers.
    Favourites were 19a,7d and 13a with special mention to last in 3a, nearly put greenungs in before I spotted te parse.
    Going for a ***/****
    Much enjoyed ,thanks to Ray T.

17. I dread Thursdays puzzles – it brings to mind the great line by Arthur Dent ‘this must be Thursday, I never could get the hang of Thursdays’

    I guess it’s a wavelength thing – completed at a glacial speed.

    1. I loved the phrase used to describe the huge spaceship that was about to destroy Earth to make way for an interstellar highway.

       “It hung in the air like a brick shouldn’t”.

18. After a couple of days of computer issues, I was able to get this RayT puzzle finished on his fortnightly visit to us.
    A little trickier than normal I thought.

    2.5*/4* for me

    Favourites include 18a, 27a, 1d, 14d & 22a — with winner 14a

    Thanks to RayT & Shabbo for hints/blog

19. 15ac, I just don’t get it. All the rest went in easy enough. What am I missing?

20. I think the answer to 15a is irrigate….remove the comma and ‘can’ becomes a verb

21. I concur with those who found this puzzle a bit more than the usual challenge — but no less enjoyable. 15a was also my downfall. I would say it is not necessary to remove the comma (as some have suggested), one merely has to see the first word as a noun and the second as a verb.

    As for the use of “on” in 26a, RayT is following the convention that “A on B” in an across clue denotes BA. The rationale is that in order for A to be written on B, B must have been written first and English is written left to right. Howver, one should be aware that this convention is not always respected by setters. On the ther hand, in a down clue, “A on B” denotes AB because it is interpreted as A on top of B.

    Thanks to RayT for the fun and Shabbo for the explanations.

    1. Yes, the convention for the DT back page (and in the Times) is for B ‘on’ A for across clues, never the other way around. The Indy and Guardian differ in also allowing A ‘on’ B for acrosses.

       1. Anax expanded on this convention in his paper on ‘The Rules’:

          On the subject of link words, there has been some confusion over the use of “on”.

          In a down clue, “on” can only mean “on top of” – i.e. it links one component to the next one (as is therefore optional).

          In an across clue, “on” tags one component to the end of another:

          Heather’s on fire, which is a shock (9)

          Here we have the old cryptic stalwart LING (heather) which is “on” (after) START (to “fire” e.g. an engine) to give STARTLING, defined as “a shock”. This would not work as a down clue!

          There isn’t a logical reason for “on” having only this use in an across clue. If you think of place-names, Henley-on-Thames describes Henley as being “next to” the Thames; it isn’t specific about left or right. It is entirely this ambiguity which has led crossword editors to mutually agree that “on” should be given a single role in an across charade clue. Was this a heads-or-tails decision? No; while helping to remove ambiguity for solvers, it is also intended to help setters. As mentioned above, where components are given in order the setter can use link wording or not – where components are juxtaposed the clue must say so, and indicators such as “after”, “following”, “behind” etc. tend to be quite specific in meaning, which can make them hard to “bury” in the clue. “On” is an innocuous little word which can be incorporated without harming the surface reading too much.

          1. Thanks. Very useful.

          2. I hate to complicate things further, but Peter Biddlecombe, crossword editor at the Sunday Times (which doesn’t always follow the conventions at The Times), thinks it’s okay to have B ‘on’ A in a down clue. “I think the Times convention about it in acrosses is distinctly odd. Assuming that “on” means “next to”, names like Southend-on-Sea and Henley-on-Thames seem ample evidence that “A on B” can mean A next to B in the A,B order in real life. As far as use in downs goes, all words are normally written horizontally, so I have no problem with a down answer being treated that way. (The idea that you can treat words in down clues as if they (rather than a down answer or parts if it) are written downwards is something I personally see as ridiculous nonsense.)”

             This was a down clue last year: I depend on no shelter, up to a point (3,8) for NOT ENTIRELY. The setter was Anax! Conventions differ and things change.

             1. Thanks for that. That clue would be fine as an across clue but as a down clue it just seems plain wrong to me. Was Anax pushing the envelope to see just how much he could smuggle past PB?

                1. I have a feeling that wasn’t the first (or last) time, and it could have been one of the Sunday Times’s two other setters, Robert Price and David ‘Hoskins’ McLean, before.
                   It wouldn’t surprise me if Anax already knew what Peter B’s thoughts were, so decided he might as well take advantage – we’d have to ask him to find out, obviously.

             2. Interesting, thanks Twmbarlwm. I entirely agree with Peter Biddlecombe. I have been wondering whether ‘on’ might ever link the wordplay to the definition, say, as in wordplay concerning definition.

                1. PB is quite strict in other respects, one of which is not accepting ‘with’ as link between wordplay and definition, so I’d guess he wouldn’t like ‘on’. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it elsewhere either though.

                   1. Thanks Twmbarlwm. All very interesting.

22. Very, very tricky for me, but what a pleasure to have a puzzle that makes sense! I was DNF with 25d, I was looking for an island and was stuck on Bali or such. I also had the incorrect answer for 15a, had to use word search, trust me to choose the wrong one. I actually remembered 8d, not bad for an over-the-hiller. I’m stuck for a fave, loved 16d and 27a, but I think fave has to be 14d.
    Thank you Mr. Breviloquence, you outdid yourself today, and Shabbo for your help along the way.

23. I must have my contrary hat on as 15a made perfect sense to me. Probably helps if you spend a lot of time gardening. Have to say I did find the rest of it somewhat more chewy than recent RayT offerings, and had to verify quite a few of my answers as they seemed a bit stretched, including 2d, 10a and 19a. And of course had zero knowledge to help with 8d. I know only a handful of cricket terms, and certainly none of them Australian ones. A good brain tease though. Thanks to RayT and Shabbo.

24. What better than sitting in the warm, sunny garden with a lovely cup of coffee, a bit of shortbread and a RayT puzzle – or so I thought :scratch: Not an easy backpager by any stretch of the imagination – struggled to get started and then realised he was in a ssssttrrreeettcchheeddd synonym mood. Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoyed it when I got going but I can’t remember the last time he used so many oblique definitions in a backpager. 15a deffo favourite :good:

    Thanks to RayT for the puzzle and to Shabbo for the review.

25. Drat, thought I had another one under my belt until I checked the hints. Then discovered my 15a drainage was wrong, I’d bunged it in even though I couldn’t parse it. But as it’s a RayT I’m quite pleased as I normally struggle with his. Thanks to all.

26. Evening all. My usual thanks to Shabbo for the decryption and to all for your observations.

    RayT

    1. Thank you, RayT for restoring my faith in my abilities to solve with a great puzzle. 👍

    2. Good evening, Mr T. Thank goodness we can still rely on you to provide our regular Ray T fix!

    3. We are all different. 15a was my first in!

27. I’m in the ‘more difficult than usual but no less enjoyable’ camp. I did a fair bit of guess the answer then work out why, it doesn’t matter how you get them as long as you get them. Favourite was 16d. Thanks to Rayt and Shabbo.

28. Good evening from a sunlit Cotswolds.
    This was quite a challenge, but I didn’t require a second mug of tea in bed this morning. Managed to work my way through before spending the day with an old friend.
    My new lawn has grow’d like Topsy, so any thoughts of ‘No mow May’ had to be abandoned this evening.
    So I am late in thanking Ray T for an excellent workout. I thought 15a was clear, with or without the comma, and is a super clue.
    Thanks also to Shabbo. How I admire the hint providers.

29. 2*/4.5*. I’ve been out all day so late posting. In a word – excellent.

    Many thanks to RayT and to Shabbo.

30. A long day out, so I think it’s all been said.
    In summary pretty tricky, but lots to like, 15a last in.

    Many thanks to RayT and to Shabbo for the hints.

31. Good evening

    First of all, thank you to Madmoonman above for explaining 15a. The CLUNK! of that particular penny finally dropping must have been audible all over the country…

    It’s a win for the Mighty Mr T today; a DNF for me. Like Shabbo, had DRAINAGE for 15a, but only as a marginal note. Although I figured out 7d, my geographical knowledge is not sufficient to have worked out the “falls” part, so that too is a marginal note. 25d eluded me completely.

    Having said all that, this was a proper challenge and one which I enjoyed. Many thanks to the Mighty Mr T and to Shabbo.

32. Threw in the towel with less than half completed.
    Thanks to RayT and to Shabbo.

    I look forward to returning to this page to read all the A before B/B before A wisdom……not cerebrating well enough at the moment despite consuming industrial quantities of hot honey and lemon.

33. As with others yesterday assumed the wrong drainage even after a night’s rest but such a great puzzle thank you RayT and Shabbo

34. No-one will be reading unless Shabbo lingers but just had to say I had no doubts about 15a and it was the first in. So obvious to me which just shows how we differ. I think Busy Lizzie was the only one to agree. Rest was much more difficult for me and I can usually do Ray T. I persisted this morning and did all but 25d as life is too short for me to go through all the Queens and Islands. Thank you Ray T and Shabbo.

    1. I read it!

35. 4*/5* ….
    liked 27A “Old pal displaying tie (9) “

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