DT 26713

95 comments on “DT 26713”

1. I worked steadily through this but was stuck on 20a. Like Gazza I thought it had to be the answer given but without much conviction. Thanks for the pic of Jane, I never tire of looking at her.

2. Yes, Gazza, we came to the same conclusion, after a long time, over 20a. Not a very useful clue. Otherwise, a bit of a romp.

3. Gazza, the clue for 16A in the paper is different – ‘Almost all the singing may come from the birds’ same answer though

4. Thanks for the review Gazza, only needed a little help with 24a , the newspaper edition has 16a as ‘Almost all the singing may come from birds’ a bit more difficult than your version, what? Thanks to Giovanni, enjoyable

5. Goodness, it looks like I’m first up today. I managed almost to finish this, though at first run-through I could put in no across words at all. I did better with the downs and managed to get almost through. 20a flummoxed me and I needed your help. Didn’t like it much. It also took me a surprisingly long time to find 4a and 7d. Many thanks for explaining 18d. My favourites were 4a (eventually) and 15a. So thanks once more to G&G.

   Now I’m off to man the gift stall at our church fête. Hope the sun shines tomorrow.

   1. No it wasn’t — I was 5th. I’m a slow writer.

      1. I must be a slow writer too – when I started to type comment I was 3rd but by the time it got there I was 8th! Oh well, who cares? It’s not a race!!

6. Really difficult; depressingly so. 3* for me. God bless gazza..

7. I think the construction for 21d is wrong
   It reads ‘test ends with fine arrangement’ which suggests ‘t’ with anagram of ‘fine’
   However to get the answer it should read ‘test with ends of fine arrangement’ or ‘test with fine arrangement ends’
   Just being a 19d really

8. I found this quite difficult – ended up finishing it apart from 20a which defeated me completely. Also couldn’t explain 16a – the clue for this one in the paper is different. It is “Almost all the singing may come from birds” – still can’t explain it! I liked 1 and 8a and 15d. With thanks to Giovanni and Gazza.

   1. Its an anagram Kath.

      1. ish

         1. Thanks Skempie – I think it’s an anagram of “al” ie almost “all” plus “the singing” but can’t quite work out what the anagram indicator is. Never mind!

   2. The indicator is ‘May Come From’

      1. Thank you – how dim am I?

         1. Not dim at all. I could never have worked that out — fortunately I had the Clued Up version, which I thought was very clever once the penny dropped.

            1. Thanks Franny, now I feel a bit less dim!! It took me a while although the answer was obvious.

9. Another fine Giovanni today. got a little stuck on the SE corner because I was convinced that 21A had to be pain. Enjoyed (the paper version of) 16A and my fave rave today is 2D.

10. Thanks to skempie, Dickiedot and Kath for providing the paper version of 16a (which I prefer).

11. A couple of tricky clues in an otherwise straightforward puzzle.
    Thanks to Giovanni, and to gazza for the review.

    The Toughie by Notabilis was a struggle in places, but well worth the effort (in my opinion).

12. Like everyone else, I was stuck on 20a before putting in what it had to be. I don’t like the clue though. That phrase actually refers to a unit of measurement used in calculating heating requirements for buildings. If those units were “times”, the clue might make a bit more sense – sadly, they’re not. Apart from that, quite an enjoyable puzzle but not one of my favourite Giovannis. Thanks to G n G.

13. So far, so good. Memsahib off to Blighty tomorrow. Then I can spend more time on XWord

14. Thank goodness the blog is up 20a driving me mad along with 19d, because I didn’t have 19d I was convinced the first word for 20a had to be charge! I don’t understand why it has to be doctors though??? also thinking on the lines of doc martins (the boots) don’t like it, once again why doctors? A puzzle of two halves for me, half went in really easily then took ages and ages to do the rest not finishing it because of 20, thanks for hints Gazza, you must be right but I remain unconvinced by that one

    1. Doctors because some of the degrees awarded confer the title of Doctor?

       1. yeeeeeees…………maybe

          1. I thought doctors as an example of someone who might get a degree as indicated by the QM, perhaps?

             1. Yes, you are both more than likely right, but…..

    2. I can see why your thoughts went to Doc Ms – the word ‘march’ is really misleading. Perhaps in North Korea, but I cannot think of anywhere else where graduates march up to get their certificates.

15. I also cannot fathom 20a. I think it is probably a weak CD. Can’t see any wordplay at all. I think the surface is trying to make you think of ‘marching in time’. Still, I thought the rest of it quite nice.

    1. Hi eXternal – welcome to the blog.

    2. Hi external, have you crossed from COW

       1. I certainly have, doing some research into DT puzzles to try and set my own to a similar standard.

          1. thought there couldn’t be two of you

16. Nice tambourine Gazza

17. I struggled with 16a and got the answer without knowing why (I do now). 5d was a new one to me, had to google it to check I was correct. Thanks to Gazza for the explanations.

18. Off to my ‘beginners’ art class now, see you later

19. OK, think I may be able to clear up 20a now. I looked up doctor in Chambers and one of the defs is ‘someone holding a doctorate’, which cross refs to ‘a high academic degree’. So I think it is a CD for ‘when someone holding a new degree may march in’. Still, I agree with Lord Luvvaduck, marching seems a bit formal. I remember doing a sort of slouchy hop skip and a jump when I went up for mine.

20. I’m also puzzled by 20a – what’s the significance of “march in”? Other than that, no real problems today. Thanks to Gazza and Giovanni.

    1. I spent some time wondering whether it was connected with the old saying “March comes in like a lion and goes out like a lamb” but got nowhere. I think it’s just that, in the surface, Giovanni is trying to paint a picture of medical doctors demonstrating (on a march) in these difficult times.

    2. Being an Oxford resident, Giovanni may have had in mind the formal days when graduates march / parade from their college in full academic dress to the Sheldonian Theatre to receive their degrees. The days on which they are conferred are referred to as degree days.

21. Thank you Giovanni for a very nice start to Friday morning. I did like 8a and 23a too. With regard to 20a, I have never seen the candidates for doctorates march – usually a slow amble while trying to find their mums in the audience! Thanks to Gazza for the review too.

    The Notabilis is a right proper Toughie as a Friday Toughie should be. Start with the RH side would be my advice.

22. I must say I thought 19d was ‘dan’ inside ‘pet’ (I have just checked and see that my old Chambers gives ‘huff’ as one of the meanings of pet). However, your explanation works just as well.

    1. That was how I saw it too.

    2. Hi honestjohn
       I was just about to post exactly the same but you beat me to it! That was my take on it too!

    3. I parsed it the same – but I think gazza’s explanation is better; I have seen Ed in puzzles more that Dan.

       1. More often than not, Ed usually turns up as a head of a newspaper rather than a boy.

    4. I never thought of that. It’s possibly marginally better than my explanation, but I think they both work. Mrs Bradford does give “huff” as one of the entries under pant.

       1. Probably because you don’t have a sister, who when younger was famed for ‘going off in a huff’.

          1. Oh – so you’ve got one of those too – mine still does!!

             1. Ah! Sisters!

                Don’t you just love them?

                1. I am one, don’t have one and don’t do that

                   1. I am one too, and don’t do that, but my sister does, always has done and, probably, always will do!! Makes having her here a touch on the tricky side sometimes ….

                2. Hmmmm – most of the time – don’t really have much choice in the matter, but, of course, neither does she!! It’s only the two of us!

    5. Me too! I didn’t see “ed” and “pant” at all. Still, as you say, either works.

23. 16a – Different Clues in Paper and On-Line Versions. Why? Any ideas?

    This is the 2nd time this week – the first occurrence was in the Elgar Toughie No. 668.

    1. I think that Pommers gave a good reason for the difference in the Toughie (i.e. “Elgar” might not mean anything to on-line solvers) but I can’t see why the paper version of 16a (which I think is better) needed changing today.

       1. Perhaps Giovanni will drop in and enlighten us on this and the pedant (I was in the “Dan inside pet” camp) matters

          1. prefer Gazzas really but it doesn’t matter does it, still more interested in 20a

          2. I was more the “ed” inside “pant” camp but only because the alternative didn’t occur to me! I think that they both work perfectly. Perhaps that makes it one of the cleverest (is there such a word) clues ever!

24. Godd afternoon all.

    First off – apologies to Big D, Chambers’ Dictionary and to Ray T for being a grumpy sausage yesterday. Onwards.

    Secondly warm greetings from 1D which I agree is not really a corner of England but is still the only County that has been a Principality courtesy of Richard II. This earth this realm this England. (Altho that was John of Gaunt – when he was poorly).

    1. No problem WB. We’re a friendly and forgiving lot here as long as you don’t engage in Yodaspeak (see Excalibur Toughies passim)

    2. LOVE the expression “grumpy sausage”! In our family whenever someone is feeling down, either mentally or physically, they are always referred to as being ” a bit of a poor pig”!

    3. Having just re-read that I think that being a “poor pig” beats being a “grumpy sausage” every time!

25. Given up with today’s, only managed the top left corner. Even then, i couldnt see what 8a had to do with Alice or 11a was to do with ham. At least a 4 star today for me with respect to difficulty. Found it all rather depressing.

    1. There’s a hairband called an Alice Hairband, I think

    2. Don’t worry Brian, when I started doing these 2 yrs ago I couldn’t even guess at most of Giovannis crosswords the only one I seemed to have any chance with was Rufus on a Monday, however with the help of this blog and many books and electronic devices! I find I can usually manage a ‘Givanni’ these days, so don’t give up, you’ll get there with a little perservation and help this blog and everyone on it is amazing, I would never manage without it

    3. Had you been a girl in the 1950s, you would have worn one so would have no trouble in remembering it

       1. I was a girl in the 1950’s – I CERTAINLY never wore one – however I do remember them very well from the poor girls who were MADE to wear them!

          1. My sister did – much to my amusement!

26. Like many of you, I was stuck on 20a. Not wholly convinced by answer … its just not a phrase that I’ve heard used; universities use funny terms like commencements for days when degrees are conferred.

    I have seen two of these clues before (at least very similar) in other crosswords: 4a and 6d, which is disappointing.

    Best clue was 22a !

27. I struggled somewhat with this one, partic SE corner, but did eventually finish, though needed Gazza’s hints to explain a few. Agree with others about 20a but once I narrowed the first word down, degree was about the only one that made any sense. 3*** for difficulty for me.

28. Finished, very satisfying. Thanks to G&G, I needed to use a couple of the hints

29. Like many others stuck on those few clues. Can I explore this business of abbreviations a bit more…sometimes arbitrarily chosen IMO. For example 10..R(ecipe)….no indication given. So is R really an accepted abbreviation for Recipe? If so, is there an online source of abbreviations ? Or is the online source, Chambers Dictionary….just take the first letter of every word ??!! [wink and smiley emoticon]

    1. … only if you have the full dictionary. Chambers have stopped providing the online service based on their Big Red Book, but I use WordWeb Pro with the Chambers (and ODE and SOED) add-ons.

       The cheapest reference is Chambers XWD – a Dictionary of Crossword Abbreviations which is available from Amazon.

    2. If you have a UK library card you might be able to get into the OED online. Keying in R gives about 250 acronyms starting R!
       Doesn’t include recipe but does have a great one from the world of computers – RTFM – Read the *ucking Manual!

30. Slightly more puzzling fare from The Don this Friday.
    Faves : 16a, 20a, 23a, 5d, 7d & 15d.

    20a was the puzzling bit – I kept thinking and singing “When The Saints Come Marching In” – but it did not clarify the matter for me!

    Grilled chicken tonight with rode wijn comme d’habitude.

    Weather today went back to Indian Summer!

    1. Lucky you – been peeing down here all day.

31. Some quite tricky ones today, but none the less enjoyable.

    I don’t remember my Oxford daughter marching to the Sheldonian, on the contrary her college provided a very nice lunch beforehand for the graduands and parents, and a porter told them to drink as much as possible as it was the only time the college was generous !

    Re 24a, obviously written by a man as they are notorious for trying to avoid reading the instruction manuals.

    Thanks fro hints, needed on several occasions today.

    1. Difference between men and women?

       Women read instruction manuals to find out how something works, men read them to find out what they’ve done wrong!

32. You can see i didn’t learn to type !

    1. Obviously typed by a woman!

       1. Multi tasking as usual !, typing and planning supper

33. I was definitely ‘dan’ in ‘pet’ for 19d until coming here, but ‘ed’ in ‘pant’ works just as well. 20a had me stumped until I got the down letters and then I sort of guessed. I hadn’t heard of this term, but found it in the dictionary, but still don’t understand the ‘march in’ part of the clue. In fact, I found this a puzzle of two halves. The top half being really easy, and the bottom half being much more obscure.

34. PS: nevertheless, many thanks to Giovanni for the setting and Gazza for the unravelling.

35. What a lot of comments for a week day! Off to bed now – we’re going to Birmingham tomorrow to help elder daughter who has just moved house! Suspect that I will be consigned to garden to do some much needed sorting out while her Dad will do the “clever stuff” like electrical bits (? too clever for me) and various other things that I can’t do! Hope that I might get the chance to look at the crossword at some stage – will probably need some help so PLEASE don’t all disappear too early!

36. Nice review Gazza but – could we not have had a video of Bob Dylan, or even The Byrds, singing ‘Mr Tambourine Man’ for 12a?

    1. No sooner said than done.

       1. Gazza – BRILLIANT! Sounds of my youth! Used to have a copy of this on vinyl but since long gone missing.
          Thanks muchly – forgotten how much I used to like Dylan – need to find an excuse for Blowin’ in the Wind!

       2. Watched this 3 times now – thanks a bunch. I’ll have to look out some more Dylan on youtube.
          What I can’t remember is why, as a 12 year old boy in 1965, I knew exactly what this song was all about and my mum thought it was about a street musician! I never told her!

          1. pommers, I doubt if you’ll ever read this, but a good clip of “Mr Tambourine Man” is from the 1965 Newport Folk Festival – when Dylan was booed by some fans when he first played with an “electric” backing group.

             The Byrds version was the first single I ever bought! How much was that in L.s.d in 1965?

             Dylan – Newport Folk Festival 1965

             1. Singles used to be 6/8d – except for Decca which where 6/4d

       3. Done ‘Like a Rolling Stone’ and now doing ‘The Times they are a’changeing’! Thanks again foir the reminder.

       4. Just found ‘All along the Watchtower’ (but I prefer the Hendrix version). Gotta go now as we’re away early tomorrow – might be back Sunday evening with more memories – where did my vinyl go?

    2. pommers, 12a – I agree completely.

       Words and all by the Byrds!

37. Thanks to the two G’s. I quite enjoyed this, but had to look up 2 answers, 20a and 19d. Favourites were 4 and 21a & 5d.

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