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	<title>Comments on: ST 2511 &#8211; Hints</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/</link>
	<description>Putting the words to lights - crossword clues explained in plain English</description>
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		<title>By: petebiddlecombe</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-9003</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[petebiddlecombe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-9003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Those &quot;double unches&quot; ...

In every word with a double unch in this puzzle, the effect of the double unch is that you get a checked letter for both the first and last letters of the word, which I&#039;d count as a benefit in the 6- and 8-letter words where all the double unches happen - I can&#039;t see that G?A??E is any worse for GOALIE than G?A?I? or ?O?L?E, for example, and the combination of rotational symmetry with the usual X?X?X? pattern means that half of the 6s must have their first letter unchecked.  As well as double unches, the grid for 2511 also has generous checking for four of the 4-letter words (3 of 4 letters) and all the 12s (7 of 12).

I&#039;m far more bothered by sub-50% checking in grids than double unches, and some Telegraph grids still seem to have this.  Finding the right word for a vague cryptic def and ?A?E? is one of my xwd solving pet hates - with something like W?T?R (or W??ER or WA??R) there&#039;s far less of a problem.  Double unches for the first two or last two letters are poor, but I&#039;ll guarantee that Sunsetter will never do that to you - and when you get them in other Telegraph grids, you&#039;ll often have something like 2 checked letters in a 6-letter word, so it&#039;s the amount of checking that&#039;s the real problem - even ?XX?X? is much better than ??X?X?.  Double unches are a no-no in most barred grid cryptics, but these have an average of about 80% checking rather than the 60% or so in good blocked grid puzzles.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those &#8220;double unches&#8221; &#8230;</p>
<p>In every word with a double unch in this puzzle, the effect of the double unch is that you get a checked letter for both the first and last letters of the word, which I&#8217;d count as a benefit in the 6- and 8-letter words where all the double unches happen &#8211; I can&#8217;t see that G?A??E is any worse for GOALIE than G?A?I? or ?O?L?E, for example, and the combination of rotational symmetry with the usual X?X?X? pattern means that half of the 6s must have their first letter unchecked.  As well as double unches, the grid for 2511 also has generous checking for four of the 4-letter words (3 of 4 letters) and all the 12s (7 of 12).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m far more bothered by sub-50% checking in grids than double unches, and some Telegraph grids still seem to have this.  Finding the right word for a vague cryptic def and ?A?E? is one of my xwd solving pet hates &#8211; with something like W?T?R (or W??ER or WA??R) there&#8217;s far less of a problem.  Double unches for the first two or last two letters are poor, but I&#8217;ll guarantee that Sunsetter will never do that to you &#8211; and when you get them in other Telegraph grids, you&#8217;ll often have something like 2 checked letters in a 6-letter word, so it&#8217;s the amount of checking that&#8217;s the real problem &#8211; even ?XX?X? is much better than ??X?X?.  Double unches are a no-no in most barred grid cryptics, but these have an average of about 80% checking rather than the 60% or so in good blocked grid puzzles.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JWED2000</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8740</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JWED2000]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Think you meant 26A Mary]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think you meant 26A Mary</p>
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		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8703</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8703</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[agree i have had a very quick look and decided to leave it til later]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>agree i have had a very quick look and decided to leave it til later</p>
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		<title>By: Big Dave</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8701</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Big Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Claire 

Yes you have - I meant to make the same point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Claire </p>
<p>Yes you have &#8211; I meant to make the same point.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8700</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Claire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Don&#039;t get that - if ithe deception is happening in the place mentioned  it wouln&#039;t be *** it would be****. Not sure if I&#039;ve explained that at all well!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t get that &#8211; if ithe deception is happening in the place mentioned  it wouln&#8217;t be *** it would be****. Not sure if I&#8217;ve explained that at all well!</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8699</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Claire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah yesterday&#039;s - finally got round to it after an afternoon in town in the rain. With a fair amount of the aforementioned it went down quite well!
At first glance today&#039;s looks tricky - Hmm I&#039;ll see how I get on this evening.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yesterday&#8217;s &#8211; finally got round to it after an afternoon in town in the rain. With a fair amount of the aforementioned it went down quite well!<br />
At first glance today&#8217;s looks tricky &#8211; Hmm I&#8217;ll see how I get on this evening.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Dave</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8695</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Big Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8695</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have absolutely no idea what you are suggesting Mary. ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have absolutely no idea what you are suggesting Mary. <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8694</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thank you Dave, is that a cryptic clue at the end there??
Night all :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you Dave, is that a cryptic clue at the end there??<br />
Night all <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: NathanJ</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8693</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NathanJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 22:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Sunsetter for a fantastic puzzle.  I liked 11a, 28a, 4d and 17d.

I didn&#039;t used to do the Sunday puzzle but with brilliant puzzles like these I will certainly be a Sunday cryptic regular from now on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Sunsetter for a fantastic puzzle.  I liked 11a, 28a, 4d and 17d.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t used to do the Sunday puzzle but with brilliant puzzles like these I will certainly be a Sunday cryptic regular from now on.</p>
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		<title>By: Prolixic</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8692</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Prolixic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Had not spotted the Nina.  On the basis of today&#039;s crossword, I thought you might be doing it on a daily basis!

Having seen Toby&#039;s and your explanation on 15a, I see the alternative reading and withdraw my niggle!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Had not spotted the Nina.  On the basis of today&#8217;s crossword, I thought you might be doing it on a daily basis!</p>
<p>Having seen Toby&#8217;s and your explanation on 15a, I see the alternative reading and withdraw my niggle!</p>
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		<title>By: Big Dave</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8688</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Big Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are right Claire - it was an extension of Mary&#039;s.  I didn&#039;t understand Nubian either - he probably imbibed too much of the alcohol in yesterday&#039;s 24a.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right Claire &#8211; it was an extension of Mary&#8217;s.  I didn&#8217;t understand Nubian either &#8211; he probably imbibed too much of the alcohol in yesterday&#8217;s 24a.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8687</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Claire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8687</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think BD&#039;s comment was an extension of Mary&#039;s - not quite sure where &#039;letter&#039; came from Nubian. With my background I think I&#039;d have clued it with a funeral! (am I allowed to say that?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think BD&#8217;s comment was an extension of Mary&#8217;s &#8211; not quite sure where &#8216;letter&#8217; came from Nubian. With my background I think I&#8217;d have clued it with a funeral! (am I allowed to say that?)</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8686</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Claire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks everyone - understand it now :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone &#8211; understand it now <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Prolixic</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8685</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Prolixic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8685</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nicely hinted at there!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely hinted at there!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Big Dave</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8684</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Big Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mary

There will usually be as many in the down clues as there are in the across.  The main problem is when the clues which include the double unchecked letters are imprecise.  Here all the clues are fair which is why you didn&#039;t notice the problem.  The problem becomes exacerbated when certain setters use them with grids that have most initial letters unchecked and then use poor cluing as well.  I&#039;d be put to the sword if I mentioned any names !!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary</p>
<p>There will usually be as many in the down clues as there are in the across.  The main problem is when the clues which include the double unchecked letters are imprecise.  Here all the clues are fair which is why you didn&#8217;t notice the problem.  The problem becomes exacerbated when certain setters use them with grids that have most initial letters unchecked and then use poor cluing as well.  I&#8217;d be put to the sword if I mentioned any names !!</p>
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		<title>By: Sunsetter</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8683</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sunsetter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:14:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many thanks for the kind comments. These, together with Peter Biddlecombe&#039;s expert commentaries, keep me on my toes.

On 15 across, the intended reading is Toby&#039;s, that is to say the subsidiary indication is a phrase defining the answer split as (3,3). That&#039;s ok in my book.

I wondered if anyone noticed the thematic element explicit in 27 across and to be found unheralded in four other answers? I don&#039;t intend to do this in general (except for special occasions such as Christmas), it just emerged as I was constructing the grid.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks for the kind comments. These, together with Peter Biddlecombe&#8217;s expert commentaries, keep me on my toes.</p>
<p>On 15 across, the intended reading is Toby&#8217;s, that is to say the subsidiary indication is a phrase defining the answer split as (3,3). That&#8217;s ok in my book.</p>
<p>I wondered if anyone noticed the thematic element explicit in 27 across and to be found unheralded in four other answers? I don&#8217;t intend to do this in general (except for special occasions such as Christmas), it just emerged as I was constructing the grid.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Dave</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8682</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Big Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8682</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regarding 15a - I had a debate about the use of &quot;in&quot; a couple of weeks ago.  Today&#039;s setter and Giovanni were among those who leapt to the defence.   I still don&#039;t like it and don&#039;t buy into the justifications given so I will watch the comments with interest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding 15a &#8211; I had a debate about the use of &#8220;in&#8221; a couple of weeks ago.  Today&#8217;s setter and Giovanni were among those who leapt to the defence.   I still don&#8217;t like it and don&#8217;t buy into the justifications given so I will watch the comments with interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Nubian</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nubian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Claire.
By your leave Big Dave, 13a is made up of going to court a second time for the same trial and ending with the penultimate letter of letter. thereby practicing a forthcoming play.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Claire.<br />
By your leave Big Dave, 13a is made up of going to court a second time for the same trial and ending with the penultimate letter of letter. thereby practicing a forthcoming play.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Big Dave</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8680</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Big Dave]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8680</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[13a	Tries again with European play, in practice (8)

... and the first seven letters put it into the correct tense! Then add the E(uropian).  The definition is &quot;play, in practice&quot; - very clever.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>13a	Tries again with European play, in practice (8)</p>
<p>&#8230; and the first seven letters put it into the correct tense! Then add the E(uropian).  The definition is &#8220;play, in practice&#8221; &#8211; very clever.</p>
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		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://bigdave44.com/2009/11/22/st-2511-hints/#comment-8679</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mary]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:18:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bigdave44.com/?p=7605#comment-8679</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[the first six letters are what a judge might do if he/she had to go back to court for the same case over again]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the first six letters are what a judge might do if he/she had to go back to court for the same case over again</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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